Originally Posted by StickyFingaz

Don't let those boys fool you... The 416 threw some of them for a loop b/c it probably sets up differently than the 415Ms-whatever version they were all used to. You can read pages and pages here on the net... but you won't know if the car's for you until you actually try it, bro.

Personally, I think it's butter.... (And I think Biner would agree too).

-Martin

Originally Posted by g12314

I have run the following on indoor carpet:

415
415msx mre
416

To me the 415 msx mre car was the worst of the bunch. I could never get it to work right. The original 415 was super easy to drive, and is still a favorite of mine (sold to a friend though).

I just began running my 416 about 3 weeks ago, and I can say I'm very pleased with it. It is very true that a 415 setup will not transfer over to the 416.

The 416 has an incredible amount of front end grip compared to the 415's. This car just wants to turn in, and turn in HARD. After 3 weeks of running I am on pace with the semi-sponsored guys, and 2/10's off the factory guys at my track (about where I should be based on my driving skill).

I do plan to test the WE upper deck to see if it provides a bit more rear grip.

Jimmy

Originally Posted by JCarr

I hvae had mine about the same amount of time and have the exact same findings. The car has some serious turn in and needs a different driving style than other car I have driven.

Originally Posted by STLNLST

Tamiya diehards- I have a few serious questions for you guys if you don't mind. We have quite a few racers that have run Tamiya for years out here and when the 416 was released they got it and suddenly fell off pace. I'm sure the same set up's that worked on the 415 might not have carried over to the 416. Needless to say after a few weeks most of them went back to their 415's. After the worlds the 416WE is released and certain changes seem to have taken place. The biggest Tamiya supporter in our area says that it looks like they made the changes that should have been done to the original 416 before releasing it to the public but had such a bad experience with the car that he's not willing to try it. He's running a 415MSXX which he says is hands down the best Tamiya car (in his opinion) He said that the only adjustment needed is shaving the bulk head to get the 5000 lipo to fit. I don't want to do this but if I have to I will shave it. I know that the 416 won't require any modifications. The two fastest Tamiya racer's in my area both run the 415. No one runs the 416 that I know of around my area that has done well with it. With the re-release of the 416WE I'm sure more will show up at the track and may have a better showing the second time around. I know it just won the worlds but if it doesn't work in the hands of regular club racers then what good is it? You open yourself up to biased opinions when you ask which is better but I've been racing long enough to weed thru the BS so if you guys don't mind sharing your thoughts on running the 415 and then running the 416 I'm all ears. Please be detailed and if you don't mind typing a book....I won't mind reading it... Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer any of my questions.

Originally Posted by StickyFingaz

Don't let those boys fool you... The 416 threw some of them for a loop b/c it probably sets up differently than the 415Ms-whatever version they were all used to. You can read pages and pages here on the net... but you won't know if the car's for you until you actually try it, bro.

Personally, I think it's butter.... (And I think Biner would agree too).

-Martin

Originally Posted by TryHard

Hopefully I can help here, I ran a 415 for a long time (before the '04 worlds!), and ran through a number of iterations of it (415, MS, MSX, and MSX MRE) and hands down, with the right setup, the 416 is faster, turns in better, but is also smoother to drive!

In simple, the 416 requires a completely different setup philosophy to the 415. A setup for the 416 really won't transfer over. The 415 liked some arm sweep on the front, with narrower blocks, and the wider arms seemed to be prefered on asphalt. It also could get away with being softer sprung and damped.

The kit setup on the original 416 was well off of what is being run now (and what won the worlds), which is probably where the issues came in. A wider front end, shorter arms, 3mm different rear wheelbase, stiffer springs etc get the car performing better and faster. I never actually tried the car with the kit settings, so can't comment, but with thoose changes it was great from the get go. (A better summary of the parts changed etc can be found here http://www.thard.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=29)

As for the WE... well it comes with all the recomended bits in the box already, plus a few other extras to gain more speed (one piece top deck, new belts etc)

In short, if they have a standard 416, have a look at that link and the setups being run... or get a WE kit with all the bits already in

HiH
Ed

Originally Posted by Adam?

STLNLST,

Other than a one-piece top deck, and slightly revised battery position, I can't think of much in the WE that's any different than what we've been running on the original 416 with the short arms, different blocks, etc. Do you know if any of those guys tried those things before giving up?

I suppose you have to take big race results with a grain of salt, since the guys driving are superhuman, but the list of big victories for the 416 since its release is almost legendary at this point.

Originally Posted by TimPotter

Clint,

I am pretty un biased about the car. I would suggest this car without hesitation. It responds to changes, and has been easy to setup since I bought it. I have not fallen off pace from my S400, and that car is excellent here at my home track...

I have run the 415 a limited amount, and that too was easy to setup and get on pace. Maybe my experience with the 415 does not qualify me to comment, but why go with an older design, when the new design has PROVEN to be a winner...

I find some people that get a specific car to work for them, if the replacement car does not respond in a few short weeks, they are soured on it, and want to move on, or in some cases... back. Some cars just do not suit paticular drivers.. for whatever reason. I loved my T2, but could never get the 007 to work for me, and it was pretty well accepted that the 007 was a much better car on asphalt then the T2.

Originally Posted by Randy Caster

Clint, what is the track size/surface/grip level?

Originally Posted by TryHard

Hopefully I can help here, I ran a 415 for a long time (before the '04 worlds!), and ran through a number of iterations of it (415, MS, MSX, and MSX MRE) and hands down, with the right setup, the 416 is faster, turns in better, but is also smoother to drive!

In simple, the 416 requires a completely different setup philosophy to the 415. A setup for the 416 really won't transfer over. The 415 liked some arm sweep on the front, with narrower blocks, and the wider arms seemed to be prefered on asphalt. It also could get away with being softer sprung and damped.

The kit setup on the original 416 was well off of what is being run now (and what won the worlds), which is probably where the issues came in. A wider front end, shorter arms, 3mm different rear wheelbase, stiffer springs etc get the car performing better and faster. I never actually tried the car with the kit settings, so can't comment, but with thoose changes it was great from the get go. (A better summary of the parts changed etc can be found here http://www.thard.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=29)

As for the WE... well it comes with all the recomended bits in the box already, plus a few other extras to gain more speed (one piece top deck, new belts etc)

In short, if they have a standard 416, have a look at that link and the setups being run... or get a WE kit with all the bits already in

HiH
Ed

Originally Posted by STLNLST

Big thanks for your input. I've spent the last 24hrs really reading up on Tamiya cars and parts. It will be great to be able to buy a pair of steering knuckles again rather then one knuckle and one rear hub

Originally Posted by STLNLST

Big thanks for your input. I've spent the last 24hrs really reading up on Tamiya cars and parts. It will be great to be able to buy a pair of steering knuckles again rather then one knuckle and one rear hub

Originally Posted by STLNLST

The tracks will be Ripon, Speedworld, and Marin. You already know the size of the first two and Marin is very small. From the looks of the pics I'd say Marin is slightly smaller than BCR. All the tracks are med-high grip. Hook a brotha up with some knowlege. I love my Hotbodies but lack of parts is getting old. Tired of always ordering over seas.

Originally Posted by JimmyMac

I can't comment much on carpet, but for asphalt, the 416 is tops, hands down! I've ran every version of the 415 (minus the MSXX, although I ran the MSXX top deck on my MRE). The 416 is just better over all. The best 415 was the original... hands down. Like everyone else is saying, it's all about setup. I've run the 416 on carpet (rubber tires) a few times. It handled great once I figured out what it needed for which ever track conditions came about. Overall, it took me a couple months to learn how to setup the car, and I was just coming from the MRE.

Originally Posted by BlackedOutREVO

Dang dude. I NEVER thought you would buy a Tamiya!!

With that, the car looks awesome. Will have to see how you do with it. I have always wanted one. But never did

Originally Posted by Hebiki

buy it quick..then we can see you at the Tamiya TCS race in the first weekend of Feb!

Originally Posted by Randy Caster

Run the Hupo Reedy Race setup at Ripon and SW, it will be good on both, for the small track stand the rear shocks up 2 holes on the tower and you should be dialed.