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Old 11-17-2008, 08:43 PM   #3316
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Originally Posted by John St.Amant View Post
You say that but in rebuttle you dont explain anything. Your road shocks dont move enough to affect it. if the shocks move 5mm at all ... u think 2mm of rebound is gonna change . What are you doing running -5mm of droop? maybe its time to use a touring car instead of the mugen buggy on the pavment...
I used to have a mugen buggy, it was great, never ran it on pavement though

2mm affects the shock movement because the amount of rebound effects the shock when its stationary, let alone when it moves. If you have 100% rebound the piston pushes itself out, if you have 0% it pulls itself in. Both alter the way the damper (as a unit including spring) works as the suspension compresses and extends.
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Old 11-17-2008, 08:48 PM   #3317
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wow supercars!
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Old 11-17-2008, 08:48 PM   #3318
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too funny, advice on how to be a man by the biggest baby on rctech
Hey Craig! Friggin grow up. sounds to me as if you are the one crying ...
name calling .... slandering people . WTF is your major malfunction?
I refuse to stoop to your level. And where ever you race , I wish I could go there... Put on a clinque, and never go there again! Dont be a Punk ok!
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Old 11-17-2008, 08:55 PM   #3319
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That doesnt tell me what you think that changes on what the car is doing .. the oil only changes the speed of the return of the shock to neutral. The rebound isnt effecting in the way u say it does because the shock doesnt move far enough. furthermore the shock moves so fast the return stroke or rebound you are so fond of never gets to change the rate of the damping ... oh never mind.. im talking to the wall you just hit ! LOL
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Old 11-17-2008, 09:41 PM   #3320
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Default Here we go again

Here we go again...another UFC internet moment...who won? who cares..To rebound or not to rebound!!!!

I was actually enjoying the 416 read through the last few pages on this thread...until all the dramatics...

congrats to MR on the win!
anyone have a guess on the street price of the new release?
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Old 11-17-2008, 09:46 PM   #3321
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I believe RCChamp are taking pre-orders for the World Edition at 42,980 yen per kit.
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Old 11-17-2008, 09:51 PM   #3322
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I'd love to keep poking the tiger but I have to go and race tonight... well hopefully, the weather looks like it'll spoil the fun. John, I race at SMA in Australia (www.smaracing.org), it's a fantastic facility and if you do find yourself down under I encourage you to come for a race

And I don't have a major malfunction, I just don't like how you come on here proclaiming that everyone else is wrong, and if someone puts forward their own point of view you belittle them. Anyway, I'm sure your customers are happy with their "Exceige's" that you tune for them, given the spelling (try Exige champ, and maybe a decent education) I assume you get the coffee or clean the floors

*blocked*
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Old 11-18-2008, 12:00 AM   #3323
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Originally Posted by CraigM View Post
I can tell you the difference between 4mm and 2mm of rebound is noticeable and can be used as a "tuning thing"
ive never messed with rebound before.. or shock oil. so this might be the missing link on my set ups.

care to explain how i accomplish full rebound and no rebound? (i always take the two extremes... then i can fine tune for 50% rebound). how i build my shocks is to fill it up to the top.. use the air remover... let it settle. add more oil. then put the bladder and pink sponge.

i close it. then when i push the rod/bottom in, it comes out all the way. (im assuming this is full rebound?)

thanks.

416WCE is gonna be dialed. is it xmas yet?
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Old 11-18-2008, 12:06 AM   #3324
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I usually reduce my rebound by bleeding more oil out of the shock. It can take a while to get all four shocks to have the same rebound.
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Old 11-18-2008, 12:33 AM   #3325
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about rebound-settings.

I found out some time ago that I was assembling my shocks in a wrong way. So i digged in some more and ask questions around.
It seems people like Jilles Groskamp, add a silicone or ribber O-ring on the shockshaft. Then, when wanting to bleed the shock, they just push the shock completely in, until the o-ring touches the shockbody, then put on the bladder, letting the excess oil drip away (= bleeding ) and screwing on the shock-top.

i was thinking some more and because I didn't want to dismount the shock-end (my shocks are perfectly trimmed to be all the same length), i figured there had to be another way.
I invented this:
I took a silicone tube, as fuel-line for nitro cars, and cut off some small rings. One of 2mm, one 3mm, one 4mm ...
I then marked the size on every ring with a permanent marker and I cut them open.
Now it was very easy for me to slide one of these spacers on the shaft, setting the rebound, finishing the shock and then, sliding the spacer of the shaft and used it again on the next one.
I easely made for exact same shocks this way.
And when I didn't liked the rebound-setting, I could easely do the shocks again, but this time with another of my spacers, with a different thickness.
I would post some pictures I made but haven't had the time yet to shrink them to a forum-friendly format.
They can be seen here: http://ludodg.com/RC/images/416/shocks/

please give me some feedback on this method.


Other question. Freidns learned me to always make my shocks (offcourse Tamiya TRF-ones) 62mm long, but then I found out some people make them 61.5 or even 62.5 ..
what difference does this make on the setting of the car?
Thx in advance.
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:47 AM   #3326
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That's indeed how Jilles, Marc, Viktor and Hupo build their shocks. They usually run minimal rebound as this seems to work best, especially under hot conditions.

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ive never messed with rebound before.. or shock oil. so this might be the missing link on my set ups.
It could be. While John is right that 1 or 2mm difference in rebound will be hard to notice, you are running full rebound where the team is running almost no rebound. That's a big difference and definitely noticeable on the track.

More rebound in an on-road application in general can roughly be compared to running harder springs (not the same mind you). It will push the car back to level quicker when the chassis rolls to one side and also make the roll smoother. Less rebound will make the car roll from one side to the other in a more "clunky" way. This can work very well if grip is ok. But the cost, like with harder springs, is that the tyres heat up quicker and more. If your tyres are overheating and you are already running a relatively soft setup you could try reducing the rebound.

Another reason to look at rebound (in combination with springs and oil thickness) is when the track is bumpy. In this case the right amount of rebound will help keep te tyres in contact with the track surface. This is especially applicable to off-road and, as John indicated, has less influence on-road as the differences are too small.

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care to explain how i accomplish full rebound and no rebound? i close it. then when i push the rod/bottom in, it comes out all the way. (im assuming this is full rebound?)
Yes, the way you build it is full rebound. To get less do what Low_E explained. Push the shock rod in before you put the bladder on. The more you push the shock rod in the less rebound you will get. The ultimate is completely in, but I have never seen that used. Jilles normally leaves about 1.5mm of the shaft showing (or the thickness of an o-ring).
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:50 AM   #3327
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Originally Posted by Hebiki View Post
ive never messed with rebound before.. or shock oil. so this might be the missing link on my set ups.

care to explain how i accomplish full rebound and no rebound? (i always take the two extremes... then i can fine tune for 50% rebound). how i build my shocks is to fill it up to the top.. use the air remover... let it settle. add more oil. then put the bladder and pink sponge.

i close it. then when i push the rod/bottom in, it comes out all the way. (im assuming this is full rebound?)

thanks.

416WCE is gonna be dialed. is it xmas yet?
Yep you've got it. Build the shock with the piston fully extended and you'll get full rebound. For 0 rebound, fill the shock with oil, push the piston fully in and hold it there while you put on the diaphragm and screw the shock cap on. For 50% I cut a piece of plastic to the right size and held it against the shock shaft while building, and for 2mm I use an oring on the shaft like the pros, low-e's trick sounds even better though, saves unscrewing the shock end.

Have a play and see what you think, I found less rebound meant less body roll and a more predictable car, but 2mm all around with 400 weight oil feels a little dull so I think I'll go back to 4mm at the front

Quote:
Originally Posted by Low_E View Post
please give me some feedback on this method.


Other question. Freidns learned me to always make my shocks (offcourse Tamiya TRF-ones) 62mm long, but then I found out some people make them 61.5 or even 62.5 ..
what difference does this make on the setting of the car?
Thx in advance.
Great trick!
As for the shock length, mine are 61.5 because thats where the shock end stopped on the thread so I just made them all the same size. The shock length will effect the droop, but I cant see .5mm making much difference here, especially because you car should hit the droop screws before bottoming out on the shock ends

hope that helps, it's good to be talking 416 in peace again
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:59 AM   #3328
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While John is right that 1 or 2mm difference in rebound will be hard to notice
I tried both 4mm and 2mm of rebound on the front shocks and the difference was noticeable. The car sits flatter through corners with 2mm but is more responsive with 4mm
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:15 AM   #3329
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:28 AM   #3330
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I was over it like ... 4 pages ago bro. Like I said I dont hold grudges. If you dont mind , Could you post some pics of your contraption? I'd love to see what youve come up with. Seriously...
Hmmm let me think....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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