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Old 07-21-2008, 08:35 AM   #2581
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As for the piston holes I always run 3 holes so far. It's for me also a question what the influences are when you change the number of holes.

I always start with the following setup:
asphalt:
- 400 oil front and rear
- 3 holes piston
- no sponge or O-ring above bladder front and rear
- yellow springs front and rear

carpet:
- 600 oil front and rear
- 3 holes piston
- no sponge or O-ring above bladder front and rear
- white springs in the front
- bleu springs in the rear

Yesterday I ran indoors on carpet at the Megadrom facility in Germany due to the rain. The oil in the shocks was 400 oil. The rest of the setup was the same as the carpet setup above. Result were promising but need some more testing as this was the first run with the new 416.

I also have a question about rebound. What does it exactly and how does it need to be adjusted for different track conditions?
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:38 AM   #2582
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Originally Posted by CraigM View Post
Hey scott save yourself the time and head over to the tips section of Ed's site. Everything you need to know is right there, though when you're buying suspension blocks just get 2 C's, an XA and an E

Thought you guys might like to see the track barts71m, veecee, and I race our tamiyas around

...cant quite figure out how to embed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTW_Be0Rp_o

We're running a different layout at the moment but you get the idea. The track is brand new and in the grounds of a sports club which has a full bar and bistro
Craig, you guys are very very VERY fortunate to have such a beautiful track. we nothing that nice here in southern California.

actually, we did.. the Tamiya track. but its closing.
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Old 07-21-2008, 02:04 PM   #2583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerrit View Post
As for the piston holes I always run 3 holes so far. It's for me also a question what the influences are when you change the number of holes.

I always start with the following setup:
asphalt:
- 400 oil front and rear
- 3 holes piston
- no sponge or O-ring above bladder front and rear
- yellow springs front and rear

carpet:
- 600 oil front and rear
- 3 holes piston
- no sponge or O-ring above bladder front and rear
- white springs in the front
- bleu springs in the rear

Yesterday I ran indoors on carpet at the Megadrom facility in Germany due to the rain. The oil in the shocks was 400 oil. The rest of the setup was the same as the carpet setup above. Result were promising but need some more testing as this was the first run with the new 416.

I also have a question about rebound. What does it exactly and how does it need to be adjusted for different track conditions?
If you've not run the 416 on asphalt yet, I would stongly advising going with the white/blue springs instead of the yellows, and the kit bars to start with too. The 416 is a pretty different animal to the 415, and likes to be set up much stiffer, in terms of springing at least.

As for rebound, this is a Quote from TRF USA Team driver Corey Whiteman (TRFWhitey) on the affects of it (it's what I was looking for yesterday!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRFwhitey
(Rebound), its an adjustment not too many people play with. I have tried alot of different shock adjustments at many different tracks. The effect of rebound directly impacts the way the car handles bumps and negotiates quick switchbacks(aka shicanes). I have found the more rebound i use, makes the car more responsive/aggresive but can handle bumpy tracks much better, less rebound the opposite is true. The reason why rebound works best for bumps is rebound keeps the tire in contact with the track after you hit a bump, the longer you car stays in contact with the track the more stable it is. As for shicanes your car needs to change directions quickly, so with alot of rebound your car will be able to transfer the weight L/R quicker with assitance from the rebound. For me i almost always run full rebound just because i like a responsive car and if there is any inperfections in the track my car will keeps its composure. Hope this was not to confusing!
So, combine rebound with adjustments via shock oil and pistons, along with pack (by foams etc above the diagphram), you have pretty useful tuning aids for shocks.

I'll admit, currently I'm liking;
400wt oil
3 hole pistons
red foam above bladder
~25% rebound (set by 2mm o-ring on shaft... shock comes out further than 2mm, but easier to set this way).

This gives good bump control and reaction (thanks to the red foam), but also makes the car pretty stable (with the minimal rebound)

EDIT- added a thread on thard.co.uk to help with this a bit.. http://www.thard.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=61

HiH
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Last edited by TryHard; 07-21-2008 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:14 PM   #2584
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hey Ed is that on high bite asphalt ? I found that my 416 lacks some
rear traction at the TCS race.
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:16 PM   #2585
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen View Post
Thanks for the explaining on the suspension arms i am used to run always the most outer hole on the arms but i will change that now so i will get a bit more grip especial at the rear end.


As for the pistons in the shocks and the oil i have a question. Till now i always ran the standard 400 Yellow oil with 3 holes but on the ETS in Germany Sakaguchie (hope i spell it right) told me that i could better run 2 holes.

Can someone tell me what you can run in what situation and what a good starting point will be for the shocks?

Thanks alot for all the help i appreciate it.

Arjen
the reason why I took 2 Hole Pistons (but not Tamiya!!! -> I took the Delrin Square TGE-12P-2 with 1.2mm holes):
The laptimes are more constant compared to the Tamiya Standard 3-hole ones. Norbert Baumann (also a TRF Driver here in Germany) wanted me to try this out.

But you can also take the Tamiya ones and drill them to 1.2mm.
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Old 07-22-2008, 02:56 AM   #2586
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Can you also explain a bit what will happen with the handling of the car if u use 2 holes 1.2mm in the shocks?

And what kind of oil do you run in them?

Arjen

Last edited by Arjen; 07-22-2008 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:18 PM   #2587
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Originally Posted by Hebiki View Post
Craig, you guys are very very VERY fortunate to have such a beautiful track. we nothing that nice here in southern California.

actually, we did.. the Tamiya track. but its closing.
That's a shame. Thanks for the kind words on the track, it took us a while to build it but the result was worth the effort. The area used to be 2 tennis courts seperated by a fence & we used to set roadrail up on one of the courts, now we have 80+ layouts to choose from and no setting up

... if you're ever in Sydney
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:34 PM   #2588
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hahahaha
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:52 PM   #2589
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I'm still chuffed with 2nd though, just as long as we're in front of those pesky phi's and t2's! Speaking of which a certain PHI owner is currently canvasing the internet for somewhere with 416 stock that will ship to Oz. Watch this space
My 416 is winging its merry way to the land of Oz as we speak, courtesy of speedy service from the boys at speedtechrc, and hopefully not along the yellow brick road. And I hope it's not in Kansas any more.

Glad to be back in the blue corner
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Old 07-23-2008, 12:18 AM   #2590
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My 416 is winging its merry way to the land of Oz as we speak, courtesy of speedy service from the boys at speedtechrc, and hopefully not along the yellow brick road. And I hope it's not in Kansas any more.

Glad to be back in the blue corner
you do have a few colours to choose from in that garage of yours, all the colours of the rainbow practically
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Old 07-23-2008, 12:33 AM   #2591
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so is the 416 discontinued or not. Tamiya's site used to say it was, but now it just says its temporarily out of stock. Ireally wanna get one, but not if its not made anymore
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Old 07-23-2008, 12:43 AM   #2592
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You shouldn't worry about a new car.... any updates that may come from a newer kit will simply be an update, rather than a whole new car. Tamiya has a good track record on this... for example, you could easily have used a chassis plate from an MSXX on an original 415 no problem!

I do find what Tamiya usa are now saying (tempoarily out of stock) much more belivable than discontinued... mainly as the kit is under a 42xxx part number, rather than the 49xxx used for limited edition kits.

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Old 07-23-2008, 02:37 AM   #2593
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bout to order me some spares for my 416....did u guys say the suspension blocks off the 415 work??? cause i got me a few of them already.

hoping to c my new car 2morrow...left the USA on the 20th according to my email.
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Old 07-23-2008, 04:16 AM   #2594
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bout to order me some spares for my 416....did u guys say the suspension blocks off the 415 work??? cause i got me a few of them already.

hoping to c my new car 2morrow...left the USA on the 20th according to my email.
The 415 blocks work fine but you need to use 2mm extra spacers on the one flipped over the belt. I think you can find 416 ones around now if you look hard enough. The only other stuff you really need is chubs and knuckles, I'm using the IFS c-hubs with the square alloy knuckles now and haven't broken anything since I stopped using the carbon filled hubs. I didnt notice any difference in the steering despite them being less stiff
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Old 07-23-2008, 05:21 AM   #2595
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Originally Posted by NickM View Post
My 416 is winging its merry way to the land of Oz as we speak, courtesy of speedy service from the boys at speedtechrc, and hopefully not along the yellow brick road. And I hope it's not in Kansas any more.

Glad to be back in the blue corner
Well done Nick. It's the best decision you could have made! Now hurry up and change that avatar!
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