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Old 03-16-2008, 09:08 AM   #1636
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Oh dear, Oh dear.... had to happen at some point, had a bit of a shocker today, in fact it was plain hideous!

Racing 10.5 at the local club (tight carpet track), and started off with the setup I've used before. Started off well with the lower grip, and the set a provisional TQ.
Second run, thought I'd try something, and rotated the bearing holders to raise the diff's up... this was the start of the problems... Unfortuantly, whilst the rear cleared the upper bulkheads fine, I forgot to take into account that the front spool had the sleaves on. Cue one set of nuked drive cups, pretty much melted due to where the sleaves rubbed on the upper bulkheads so worn away a bit of the bulkheads, and worn off all the anodising from the sleaves... balls!

Biggest bugger was that I didn't have any spare outdrive cups, so decided to run a locked one-way using Atomics locked one-way outdrives (really didn't want to run a full one-way on this tight track).

Left the rest of the setup as for the spool, bar going to 2.5mm under the rear outer link to help gain some more steering. Interestingly, didn't seem to give any more steering than the spool but having drag brake dialed in didn't help, with the car stepping out badly off power. Seemed that the rear of the car was sliding a lot as well, overheating the rear's and losing all grip. Wasn't improving, so just pulled the car off.

For the first final, decided to loose all the drag brake, and go to a soft rear roll bar, in an attempt to stop the overheating of the rears. Also dropped the rear outer ball joint down to 2mm. This run... well, car was better for the first minute, but then the rears overheated again, and that was it.

For the last final, removed the 0.5mm shims from underneath the rear blocks, and went back to 3deg of rear toe. Well, all that did was prolong the overheating from 2min to 3min... so pretty much decided that spool is vital!

And I still didn't get the opportunity to test the differences in diff height... bugger. Oh well, I'll be putting steel outdrives on the spool next time, so shouldn't have any clearance issues now (especially with the removing of material from the blkheads..). Ah well, win some loose some
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Last edited by TryHard; 03-16-2008 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 03-16-2008, 12:13 PM   #1637
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Yeah, I tried the front spool in high position only to find that I couldn't bolt down the upper bulk head pieces because the camber link screw was sticking out the bottom. You gotta use TA05 steel spool outdrives if you want to use this position with a spool.
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Old 03-16-2008, 01:12 PM   #1638
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hi guys,

had my first run with my 416 yesterday! hooray

Wednesday i got it and started building it. every night to about 3 o clock of work to get it done by Friday evening, overall , compared to xray what i had before, its way less quality and parts fit. played a little with the center pulley side play but its alright now.. had lots to do to make the HD drive shafts fit on the 415 spool... had to drill the delrin outdrives to 6.5mm for the ball of the shaft to fit in it and also make the slots a little wider for the pins.. well it runs smooth now. also the stock susp arms have way to much play in them! rest was okey, already love the shocks since i already used them on my xray...

of to the track!
first attempt, motor problem... wobbled a little with the brushes seemed to work for a single lap
second attempt, same problem
3nd attempt, put a different motor in it. car was awesome
Loads of steering right out the box! didn't setup it at all, just the camber and toe to 1,5 camber all round 1toe out front and 3in rear. no downstops, no check for tweak nothing, just awesome grip! did slow down too much entering a corner but for the first run i was glad it drove so good.
pulled it of after 3 mins for a short check for loose screws and already noticed a broken c-hub... right, these things are from something like butter cause i only touched the boardings gently twice... but still i didn't notice it on the track that much!
put the ta05 ics chubs on em and also put a wheel spacer , the big ones, under the steering block because i saw that the bushing had been pulled through the chub hole on the bottom so i hope the increased surface would help keeping them good. so went off the pits and on the track again. drove 1/2 a lap and hit a curb way to hard, and yeah, broken again..... bad day...
this time the HB shaft got stuck on the delrin cups... back in the pits i saw that the dogbone didn't go in far enough. i was using the stock a/b susp blocks with the stock 416 arms so i went to XB/X blocks and the short lwt arms and now i think they wont come out anymore... track width is now like 184 so maybe im gonne play around with some wheel spacers to get it right..
so after mounting the short arms and blocks on the car i coundt mount the rollbarr fast enough because the track was closing, pulled it off and put my car on the track, still it was awesome, somewhat less steering but i figured when putting the bar on again this would be solved. i totally like the overall feeling how it drives and how i can still correct steering already in a turn, have some things to do like setting it up properly and trying to make it more reliable...

thanks for all the tips all you guys helping allot when building the car and which parts to take in stock

some more testing next week!

Mark
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:10 AM   #1639
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Made a couple of site updates last night.

Added some more pictures of my 416 (ain't it preddy ) here, and also posted the updated build tips document (including suggestions from on here ).

Link for that is here; TRF416 - Things to know

Cheers
Ed
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:09 AM   #1640
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nice one tryhard. very informative word document u have there

Markimpje, i dont have durability issues with the car to be honest. its tough ass.. had it for 3 months now, all i broke was just a c hub and the front upright at the same time. but once i got it changed.. havent had problems for 2 months straight.. and im using it real intense, almost put through 30-40 packs on it already.

its such a good consistent car that all i do now is just practice on my driving line and getting to know the car more... just simply love the car.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:59 AM   #1641
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Originally Posted by bigbutstupid View Post
nice one tryhard. very informative word document u have there

Markimpje, i dont have durability issues with the car to be honest. its tough ass.. had it for 3 months now, all i broke was just a c hub and the front upright at the same time. but once i got it changed.. havent had problems for 2 months straight.. and im using it real intense, almost put through 30-40 packs on it already.

its such a good consistent car that all i do now is just practice on my driving line and getting to know the car more... just simply love the car.
I'll agree with that, having now found a good standard setup for carpet, I hardly touch the car (even though I like to fiddle)... makes racing a lot more enjoyable, when combined with LiPo and brushless (I'm lazy )

Ed
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Old 03-17-2008, 08:04 AM   #1642
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yeah, what did you put into your car?
the plastic ones from the TA05 IFS??? cause i think these are way softer and more flexibel than the stock ones...

and about our track, its damned... we have a few sections where the track is just TOO hard... the layout of the track is kind of cool, little technical.. but in chicanes they put some metal pipes on the track, if you slightly touch em your car is just broken, anyone... just too hard on the car..
we used to have flexible rubber ones but this year they decided not to use them anymore because they say they grip more and then your car would slow down too much... right...
i'll make some pictures next time... also from my car...

another thing i just noticed, the front rear susp mounts, im using a flipped over X block and it doesnt seem to accept more than 3mm spacer. it barely touches the spool already. i want to use some front anti dive but i dont think i can put it any higher than this. maybe its because i run the belt really loose... already soaked the belt in red dot tc, hope it stretches a little in a while...
i just need some setuptime!

cheerz,
Mark
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Old 03-17-2008, 08:50 AM   #1643
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Tamiya TRF 416 takes all podium places at the euros!!! (modified)
The chassis is performing really well at the top level!!
Maybe the worlds edition will be a jiles groskamp model???
I cant wait for the worlds to be released
Ed
tryhard 416 site is looking good,keep up the good work!!!
Tamiya should reward you for your dedication to their top flight cars!!!
Maybe a free visit to their production factory,Or a day with giles and the boys at the next euros?
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:12 AM   #1644
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Hello,

I ran my 416 this weekend and have a problem with oversteering. I use Sorex32 tires with medium firm inserts. I use the stock rear toe-in and front toe in at 0'. Camber is 1' front and 2' back. I swapped out the rear spring to red (Tamiya), and I am running 60 oil front and 40 oil rear.

Is there anything else that I could do to reduce oversteering? There is this squeaking sound from the tires (?) whenever I swing the car in a 180 turn.

Thanks!
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:32 AM   #1645
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I'm using the plastic c-hubs from the IFS until the aluminum ones are back in stock. Anyway, they're too soft, but it beats breaking constantly.

RCMARKET: When Square c-hubs back in stock? It say 2 weeks for 2 months! :-)
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:37 AM   #1646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
I'm using the plastic c-hubs from the IFS until the aluminum ones are back in stock. Anyway, they're too soft, but it beats breaking constantly.

RCMARKET: When Square c-hubs back in stock? It say 2 weeks for 2 months! :-)
sounds like losi...
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:29 PM   #1647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
I'm using the plastic c-hubs from the IFS until the aluminum ones are back in stock. Anyway, they're too soft, but it beats breaking constantly.

RCMARKET: When Square c-hubs back in stock? It say 2 weeks for 2 months! :-)
this weekend !
& many parts weekend back in stock !
but without 54031 & 51293 C hub
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:03 PM   #1648
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Default 416 spool

Anyone knows when Tamiya will be releasing the 416 spool?
They have it listed in their website but I don't think it's officially release yet.

Don't know why Tamiya on hold the release of this important part for such a long time when 95% of modified drivers are running spool.

Date please...
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:25 PM   #1649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bboy View Post
Hello,

I ran my 416 this weekend and have a problem with oversteering. I use Sorex32 tires with medium firm inserts. I use the stock rear toe-in and front toe in at 0'. Camber is 1' front and 2' back. I swapped out the rear spring to red (Tamiya), and I am running 60 oil front and 40 oil rear.

Is there anything else that I could do to reduce oversteering? There is this squeaking sound from the tires (?) whenever I swing the car in a 180 turn.

Thanks!
Where is the oversteering occurring? When you let off into a turn? On power coming out and/or in the middle of the turn? You running a oneway? Try less rear droop if it's an off power oversteer. You can also add some shims under the rear hub camber link. And/or lower the inner rear camber link for more camber gain in the turn. This will help under certain situations. Also, are you running long or short link in the rear?
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:37 PM   #1650
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Well going with what Ed told me a few weeks back, I'm gonna dump the servo saver and go direct. Either the stock saver clamps wear down too quickly. Or they are just plain weak. I think I'm loosing a lot of steering from this. And the car is not centering well anymore. Now I can grab the tires with the car "ON". And turn the tires left to right with little effort while the servo remains straight. So I'm going back to old school and running direct. Now I just need to buy a spare servo.

Some of the tracks I run on are deadly! This past weekend I've seen XRay, Corally, Schumacher, AE, Avid, and Yokomo (?) all busted up and broken off of turn one. Only cars that didn't break was my 416 and a JRXS. And I did some of my own corner bashing! Terrell can vouch for that! Teach you to laugh at me!!!

Anyways, is the KO low profile servo all metal gear? Or does if have a plastic idler gear like on the Futaba s9550?
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