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Old 08-24-2007, 07:02 PM   #1
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Default Positives on the brushed side of things

I was just wondering if there are any positives to running brushed set-ups. It seems like all the hype is about brushless motors these days. I only came into the hobby a couple of years ago when brushless was really taking off so I am new to high performance brushed systems (i have used quite a few brushless systems, but hardly any nice brushed set-ups). I guess I am just looking for some positives about brushed because all the press seems so negative throughout forums.

I know many people say one of the major advantages is the lack of brushless maintenance, but doesn't that seem to take some of the sport away? I guess one could compare it to a nascar team that never needs to tweak/work on their engines.

thanks for input
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Old 08-24-2007, 07:09 PM   #2
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In stock or 19t (that runs only brushed), the drivers that maintain and tune a motor well are rewarded with more horsepower. In any open mod class, I can't see there being any performance advantage with brushed motors.
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Old 08-24-2007, 07:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wfdfiremedic View Post
I was just wondering if there are any positives to running brushed set-ups. It seems like all the hype is about brushless motors these days. I only came into the hobby a couple of years ago when brushless was really taking off so I am new to high performance brushed systems (i have used quite a few brushless systems, but hardly any nice brushed set-ups). I guess I am just looking for some positives about brushed because all the press seems so negative throughout forums.

I know many people say one of the major advantages is the lack of brushless maintenance, but doesn't that seem to take some of the sport away? I guess one could compare it to a nascar team that never needs to tweak/work on their engines.

thanks for input
I agree that first off it takes away some of the sport.

One of the advantages to brushed racing is that it is cheaper to get into for new racers. All the brushless set ups are pretty expensive. But a brushed set up can be had pretty cheap because first of all, a new racer doesn't need the most expensive ESC. The sub $100 ESC's will work just fine for the majority of racers. AND, there are plenty of racers like myself that have an abundance of brushed stock and 19t motors that are in really good shape that we are willing to give away for very little or no money. I know I have given away a number of motors for free over the last few months to brand new racers.

But i'm not attacking brushless. There are certainly some advantages to brushless. It just unfortunate that the brushless/brushed debate, and the lipo/nimh debate is causing so much separation in racing.

Its taking some of the fun out of this hobby, I think
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Old 08-24-2007, 07:15 PM   #4
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there are more tuning options with a brushed motors.
eg if you want more low end power you can choose a motor for that.

if you got lots of moeny to spend on brushes and different types of motors to tune and have the time to cut and skill to tune the motor, then brushed is the way to go.

otherwise for day to day club racing and if you just want to spend more of your time practicing, then brushless all the way
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Old 08-24-2007, 07:33 PM   #5
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If you want to race in any ROAR stock class. Only brushed 27t motors fit into the current ROAR rules. So there is huge advantage there since you can not even race unless u run a brushed motor

Nice thing about brushed ROAR stock is that there is built in price caps on the motors and they can run on any ESC from 40$ units up to the 200$ units.

Still waiting on ROAR STOCK BRUSHLESS RULES
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:27 PM   #6
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I see no benefit to brushed. The old "its cheaper" is not really true in the long run. $200 to $250 for a new brushless system(used alot less) vs $100 to $120 plus all the proper equipment and supplies to maintain and tune brushed well thats a push or cheaper to start with brushless. The "sport" of tuning and tweaking a motor does appeal to some but I'd rather use that time to learn and practice driving skills and setups. Just my .02$
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:33 PM   #7
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Old 08-24-2007, 09:08 PM   #8
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Default Carburetor vs Fuel Injection.

The only thing positive about brushed motor is that you can get one free from someone (who spent hundreds of dollars [if not thousands] on motors, lathes, dyno's, tricks and techniques. Your free motor will probably be one of the slowest of the bunch.

When a technology is dying, history proves that we will have this same debate and experiences. You can either invest in the future or whip a dead horse.

You can go to any junk yard and get a free carburetor!

The debate about brushed vs. brushless is similar that the automotive industry experienced 20 years when fuel injections came out. The argument of a Holly carburetor vs. fuel injection. Now fuel injection is faster, more fuel efficient, little maintenance, and easier to diagnose. Now a carburetor mechanic and rebuild is exotic. Also electronic ignition vs distributor cap, points and condenser. 3 years from now, racers will be laughing at someone running a brushed motor.

The NEAR future is brushless and LIPO.

1 Motor not 20 - $$$$ (10 to 20 @ $40 each = $400+)
No comm lathe - $$$
No springs - $
No battery equalizer- $$$
No discharger - $$
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The down side is that motor and battery tuners will have to adapt quickly or die. Unfortunately, these same people are making a part-time living by introducing what the IT world calls the FUD factor. "FEAR, UNCERTAINTY and DOUBT".

Simple....Get a brushless system, then go to your nearest race track and say that they will not get your money unless they let you run your brushless system. Tracks will have to adapt quickly, or close because of lack of attendance. Hell, this is happening now...

P.S. I carry a spare brushless system to track each time and lend out to some die hard brushed motor guys. After a day, I am having a 80% conversion rate. Got 2 "converts" today, and expect about 10+ tomorrow!!!
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Old 08-24-2007, 10:05 PM   #9
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That is pretty true.

But i still don't think its the best thing for "beginners".

Also, with the automotive analogys, now days you can't just go out and tune on your car. Its all wires and computers. Sure there are some things you can do, and having all the computerized stuff makes the cars run better for longer, but there are lots of people who would like to be more active with their vehicles but are unable to.
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Old 08-24-2007, 10:25 PM   #10
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All the sponsored stock guys will still be your friend.
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:05 AM   #11
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At my local tracks, 90% of the drivers are using 13.5's. Now I am not the greatest driver in the world, but I would like to think I am armature at best... having said that, I come to my point. I am forced to run brushed due to cost restraints. I recieved a Novak GTX with my 12th scale car and have been running it in my TC5 since I got it. At first I just wanted to go out and have fun. But once I started getting faster and more consistent, I started to notice how under powered I was. This was discouraging for me as a new racer. I could keep up with many drivers through the corners, but as soon as I got to a straight I might as well have been standing still. At first I thought it was just because my motor was worn out and needed to be cut. However, even after having it tuned by a local racer, I was still no match for a brushless car. I tried adjusting my FDR, and I picked up a little. But the motor just got so hot that I had to go back to my original gearing. So basically what I am trying to say is... There are no advantages that I can see to running brushed motors. Brushless seems to be the only way to go. Maybe I am missing something important? Who knows... but as per my experiance, I do not feel that brushed vs. brushless is even worth debating. Brushless > Brushed.... simple as that...
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Old 08-25-2007, 03:32 AM   #12
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Main benefit of brushed is that it is technically simple.

If you want to check whether a motor runs, attach it directly to a battery and it will go.

Equally, the ESC's are basically a lot simpler in design and at present are more compact with a lot less wiring, so easier to fit in most cars.

Also quite a few people are still having niggling problems locally with brushless systems, the technology is still developing rapidly and isn't 100% perfect yet.
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Old 08-25-2007, 03:40 AM   #13
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^^^ can't engineer against user stupidity.

i find it funny lots of racers said "brushless unreliable" "brushless dont have the feel of a brushed motor" ...

now those same people are using brushless exclusively
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Old 08-25-2007, 04:30 AM   #14
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BL (Brushless) motors make are leveling off the playing field. This has several positives.

1. New racers can be just as fast as the more experienced guys running the same motor setup, so they get to focus on making the car better, not the motor. Not having to rebuild or worry about tuning the motor adds to the sport, by allowing a little more discussion time between races, and allowing newbies to enjoy racing instead worrying about how they are going to find speed.

2. It is cheaper, period. Yes a BL system may cost $200 to $300, but as long as you don't over gear and oil the bearings ocassionally, that's all you will spend. If you run brushed motors, to be competitive, you have to buy several motors, extra rotors/armatures, brushes, comm lathe, motor spray, springs, etc.... , not to mention that maintaining a brushed motor is a PITA.

This kinda reminds me back when Nascar started tweaking their rules to push the race cars closer together on the track. With brushless, we all can run closer, and now we truly get to see who is slow and who is fast.
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Old 08-25-2007, 08:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_Spec_RC View Post
At my local tracks, 90% of the drivers are using 13.5's. Now I am not the greatest driver in the world, but I would like to think I am armature at best... having said that, I come to my point. I am forced to run brushed due to cost restraints. I recieved a Novak GTX with my 12th scale car and have been running it in my TC5 since I got it. At first I just wanted to go out and have fun. But once I started getting faster and more consistent, I started to notice how under powered I was. This was discouraging for me as a new racer. I could keep up with many drivers through the corners, but as soon as I got to a straight I might as well have been standing still. At first I thought it was just because my motor was worn out and needed to be cut. However, even after having it tuned by a local racer, I was still no match for a brushless car. I tried adjusting my FDR, and I picked up a little. But the motor just got so hot that I had to go back to my original gearing. So basically what I am trying to say is... There are no advantages that I can see to running brushed motors. Brushless seems to be the only way to go. Maybe I am missing something important? Who knows... but as per my experiance, I do not feel that brushed vs. brushless is even worth debating. Brushless > Brushed.... simple as that...
Your stock motor will always be slower than a 13.5. The 13.5 is closer to a 19t than a stock motor, when geared correctly.
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