Associated Factory Team TC5, Brushless, LiPo, Li-ion Nanophosphate, Tips and Tricks
09-18-2007, 08:37 PM
#226
Here are my thoughts on the weight issue.
Yes you should ballast your car up to 53 ounces, for club racing, if you run LiPo until the ROAR rules change. You will still have the advantage with LiPo. I have run touring cars ballasted and not ballasted. LiPo wins ballasted and is ballistic unballasted. As soon as another electric TC appears on my track and wants to run NiMH then I will ballast my car up to be somewhat fair. Now if all you have to race against is 1/10 Nitro they have the advantage over my electric touring car so I run the TC light. Maybe all I need is a second gear
.
John
Yes you should ballast your car up to 53 ounces, for club racing, if you run LiPo until the ROAR rules change. You will still have the advantage with LiPo. I have run touring cars ballasted and not ballasted. LiPo wins ballasted and is ballistic unballasted. As soon as another electric TC appears on my track and wants to run NiMH then I will ballast my car up to be somewhat fair. Now if all you have to race against is 1/10 Nitro they have the advantage over my electric touring car so I run the TC light. Maybe all I need is a second gear
.John
Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-18-2007 at 09:21 PM.
09-20-2007, 05:33 PM
#227
STLnst= I ordered a spool from associated. They promise me one in 10 days
.
I notice that the price of the spool at associated and at tower was listed at 7.95 or so. I thought maybe this was not the spool and maybe some way of locking the plastic diff halves. The price is just mismarked. The price is 27.95 and it is the solid spool, I put up a link to previous. I got a corrective e-mail from associated. I hope the pin pillows fit.
I forgot that Losi superceded the sandpapaper disks with a spool pad made of some kind of plastic that snaps together over the Pulley less balls. I did use this pad mod in the JRXS and it seemed to work fine. I'll see if it fits our gear. The Associated and Losi diff rings used to be interchangeable. I am not so sure anymore as the diff balls and rings have been lightened with smaller and thinner parts respectively. One problem with locking the Associated parts this way is the screw is tiny. The nut does not quite have the strength it needs for this different duty.
I installed the LOSI JRXS spool pads in the TC5. They fit fine. They differ from the sandpaper in that they have teeth that fit in the spaces where the balls go. They snap in making assembly easier. They provide two plastic on steel clutches that has a bit more friction than paper on steel. I'll try it later this week until my spool comes from Associated. Losi diff rings and diff bearings will also fit this TC5 diff.
John
.I notice that the price of the spool at associated and at tower was listed at 7.95 or so. I thought maybe this was not the spool and maybe some way of locking the plastic diff halves. The price is just mismarked. The price is 27.95 and it is the solid spool, I put up a link to previous. I got a corrective e-mail from associated. I hope the pin pillows fit.
I forgot that Losi superceded the sandpapaper disks with a spool pad made of some kind of plastic that snaps together over the Pulley less balls. I did use this pad mod in the JRXS and it seemed to work fine. I'll see if it fits our gear. The Associated and Losi diff rings used to be interchangeable. I am not so sure anymore as the diff balls and rings have been lightened with smaller and thinner parts respectively. One problem with locking the Associated parts this way is the screw is tiny. The nut does not quite have the strength it needs for this different duty.
I installed the LOSI JRXS spool pads in the TC5. They fit fine. They differ from the sandpaper in that they have teeth that fit in the spaces where the balls go. They snap in making assembly easier. They provide two plastic on steel clutches that has a bit more friction than paper on steel. I'll try it later this week until my spool comes from Associated. Losi diff rings and diff bearings will also fit this TC5 diff.
John
Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-20-2007 at 07:34 PM.
09-20-2007, 09:07 PM
#228
STLnst= I ordered a spool from associated. They promise me one in 10 days.
I notice that the price of the spool at associated and at tower was listed at 7.95 or so. I thought maybe this was not the spool and maybe some way of locking the plastic diff halves. The price is just mismarked. The price is 27.95 and it is the solid spool, I put up a link to previous. I got a corrective e-mail from associated. I hope the pin pillows fit.
I forgot that Losi superceded the sandpapaper disks with a spool pad made of some kind of plastic that snaps together over the Pulley less balls. I did use this pad mod in the JRXS and it seemed to work fine. I'll see if it fits our gear. The Associated and Losi diff rings used to be interchangeable. I am not so sure anymore as the diff balls and rings have been lightened with smaller and thinner parts respectively. One problem with locking the Associated parts this way is the screw is tiny. The nut does not quite have the strength it needs for this different duty.
I installed the LOSI JRXS spool pads in the TC5. They fit fine. They differ from the sandpaper in that they have teeth that fit in the spaces where the balls go. They snap in making assembly easier. They provide two plastic on steel clutches that has a bit more friction than paper on steel. I'll try it later this week until my spool comes from Associated. Losi diff rings and diff bearings will also fit this TC5 diff.
John
.I notice that the price of the spool at associated and at tower was listed at 7.95 or so. I thought maybe this was not the spool and maybe some way of locking the plastic diff halves. The price is just mismarked. The price is 27.95 and it is the solid spool, I put up a link to previous. I got a corrective e-mail from associated. I hope the pin pillows fit.
I forgot that Losi superceded the sandpapaper disks with a spool pad made of some kind of plastic that snaps together over the Pulley less balls. I did use this pad mod in the JRXS and it seemed to work fine. I'll see if it fits our gear. The Associated and Losi diff rings used to be interchangeable. I am not so sure anymore as the diff balls and rings have been lightened with smaller and thinner parts respectively. One problem with locking the Associated parts this way is the screw is tiny. The nut does not quite have the strength it needs for this different duty.
I installed the LOSI JRXS spool pads in the TC5. They fit fine. They differ from the sandpaper in that they have teeth that fit in the spaces where the balls go. They snap in making assembly easier. They provide two plastic on steel clutches that has a bit more friction than paper on steel. I'll try it later this week until my spool comes from Associated. Losi diff rings and diff bearings will also fit this TC5 diff.
John
It took a while for mine as well and I'm just 8 hours or so from them. That's cool that the Losi parts fit the car if you're in a pinch. I just don't want to run a hybrid type car. If it's not AE or made specifically for the tC5 then I won't bolt it on. Too many times in the past I had 2-3 different car manufactures parts on my ride
09-21-2007, 08:52 PM
#229
Parts shipped yesterday to Houston. Should be here faster than advertized.
I took the rear diff appart and it was melted as well. This is the first time I have seen a melted ball diff. The rings were melted into the diff flanges. Now this probably happened after the front diff melted, but a good diff with steel diff flanges wont give you this kind of grief. It will actually be sufficient to drive the car by itself with a mod motor. It will also have good wear properties at the dogbone.
Wanted: Hardened Steel diff halves/outdrives
I looked at my TC4. I have a home locked front diff with steel outdrives and steel rear outdrives. This is the setup that works the best outdoors for powerful mod motors. I hope they become available for the TC5. In the meantime I will rebuild the rear plastic and the front with an Aluminum Spool. The spool should take almost all the load off the rear diff.
I like that Losi spool pad as it provides a clutch for the front locked diff. That is what is in my TC4. I am not so particular that I won't use a better part from another kit like guys are already doing with the belts.
John
I took the rear diff appart and it was melted as well. This is the first time I have seen a melted ball diff. The rings were melted into the diff flanges. Now this probably happened after the front diff melted, but a good diff with steel diff flanges wont give you this kind of grief. It will actually be sufficient to drive the car by itself with a mod motor. It will also have good wear properties at the dogbone.
Wanted: Hardened Steel diff halves/outdrives
I looked at my TC4. I have a home locked front diff with steel outdrives and steel rear outdrives. This is the setup that works the best outdoors for powerful mod motors. I hope they become available for the TC5. In the meantime I will rebuild the rear plastic and the front with an Aluminum Spool. The spool should take almost all the load off the rear diff.
I like that Losi spool pad as it provides a clutch for the front locked diff. That is what is in my TC4. I am not so particular that I won't use a better part from another kit like guys are already doing with the belts.
John
09-21-2007, 09:20 PM
#230
Parts shipped yesterday to Houston. Should be here faster than advertized.
I took the rear diff appart and it was melted as well. This is the first time I have seen a melted ball diff. The rings were melted into the diff flanges. Now this probably happened after the front diff melted, but a good diff with steel diff flanges wont give you this kind of grief. It will actually be sufficient to drive the car by itself with a mod motor. It will also have good wear properties at the dogbone.
Wanted: Hardened Steel diff halves/outdrives
I looked at my TC4. I have a home locked front diff with steel outdrives and steel rear outdrives. This is the setup that works the best outdoors for powerful mod motors. I hope they become available for the TC5. In the meantime I will rebuild the rear plastic and the front with an Aluminum Spool. The spool should take almost all the load off the rear diff.
I like that Losi spool pad as it provides a clutch for the front locked diff. That is what is in my TC4. I am not so particular that I won't use a better part from another kit like guys are already doing with the belts.
John
I took the rear diff appart and it was melted as well. This is the first time I have seen a melted ball diff. The rings were melted into the diff flanges. Now this probably happened after the front diff melted, but a good diff with steel diff flanges wont give you this kind of grief. It will actually be sufficient to drive the car by itself with a mod motor. It will also have good wear properties at the dogbone.
Wanted: Hardened Steel diff halves/outdrives
I looked at my TC4. I have a home locked front diff with steel outdrives and steel rear outdrives. This is the setup that works the best outdoors for powerful mod motors. I hope they become available for the TC5. In the meantime I will rebuild the rear plastic and the front with an Aluminum Spool. The spool should take almost all the load off the rear diff.
I like that Losi spool pad as it provides a clutch for the front locked diff. That is what is in my TC4. I am not so particular that I won't use a better part from another kit like guys are already doing with the belts.
John
Alum AE, header card, soon to be Losi pulley.Question....would the losi pulley be just like using a header card......that it has a little give should you have an impact?
Last edited by STLNLST; 09-21-2007 at 09:21 PM. Reason: had another question to ask
09-21-2007, 10:02 PM
#231
The Losi Spool Pad is a little like using a carboard disk except that it will not slip on the pulley due to interlocking teeth and has a bit better friction on the steel diff rings. The one on my TC4 is locked up much tighter than I could achieve with the sandpaper disks which work similar to the cardstock. I removed three thin outdrive bearing shims to install the spool pad on the TC5. It makes a slightly wider diff. I plan to order a new spool pad as well. I wish it was available without the Losi pulley. It would make a good spare which I agree you should have if you run a spool.
I am going to give the plastic rear diff one more try when I get the front locked up well. It is normal for almost all the diff wear in the rear to cease once you lockup the front or get a one-way.
John
I am going to give the plastic rear diff one more try when I get the front locked up well. It is normal for almost all the diff wear in the rear to cease once you lockup the front or get a one-way.
John
09-22-2007, 01:08 AM
#232
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Need your input:
for those who want to run Lipos- do you think its fair that if you want to run, say an Orion 4800mah pack, and your car weighs in at 1350g with that pack, and its 7.4v, of course....and you're racing against others who prefer the old 6 cell nimh packs, and they are running 6 cells at 1.3v each for a total of 7.8v, but their car weighs in at 1550g, due to the extra nimh pack weight...guess what, the nimh guys demand that you run your lipo equiped car at their class's weight limit of 1500g...is that fair? If you now have to run at their weight of 1500g, wouldnt that extra 150g of lead you'll need to add to your car to meet weight decrease your cars performance and put you at a power and speed disadvantage? You'll be running your Lipo at 7.4V @1500g, but they'll be running 7.8V with the current pro matched cells and have more punch and power that our Lipos? Is that fair? Maybe those that run Lipo can run at 4-5 cell nimh weight and thus make it more fair to run against the 6 cell powered cars? That would mean 2 weight limits for each battery type. Or maybe limit the power on the 6 cell nimh so its at 7.4V, like the Lipo?
We are trying to sort this out at our club races coming up and would like to know what you all think...
for those who want to run Lipos- do you think its fair that if you want to run, say an Orion 4800mah pack, and your car weighs in at 1350g with that pack, and its 7.4v, of course....and you're racing against others who prefer the old 6 cell nimh packs, and they are running 6 cells at 1.3v each for a total of 7.8v, but their car weighs in at 1550g, due to the extra nimh pack weight...guess what, the nimh guys demand that you run your lipo equiped car at their class's weight limit of 1500g...is that fair? If you now have to run at their weight of 1500g, wouldnt that extra 150g of lead you'll need to add to your car to meet weight decrease your cars performance and put you at a power and speed disadvantage? You'll be running your Lipo at 7.4V @1500g, but they'll be running 7.8V with the current pro matched cells and have more punch and power that our Lipos? Is that fair? Maybe those that run Lipo can run at 4-5 cell nimh weight and thus make it more fair to run against the 6 cell powered cars? That would mean 2 weight limits for each battery type. Or maybe limit the power on the 6 cell nimh so its at 7.4V, like the Lipo?
We are trying to sort this out at our club races coming up and would like to know what you all think...
i have trakpower 4900 & orion 4800 (this is coming up to around 2 years old now
(not used for the last year though ,orion one)run 1500g li-po with the 1500g nimh guy's
easier to police
performance wise
nimh first part of the race then li-po takes over to the end
i had no problem last night racing down local club & i got asked if i was up to weight by a couple of regular racers aswell ,since i was sitting 2nd at the time
the 7.8v vs 7.4 don't worry about it ,you wouldn't notice on track (unless your a andy moore of this world
it's still in the gearing as they say
09-24-2007, 12:09 PM
#233
Mr Jolly-Thanks for the post.
I received the FMA direct 4800 mA-h packs. They weight in a 9.7 ounces. I did not check the dimensions very carefully, but the pack just fit between the bulkheads of the TC5. It is 150 mm long. I reversed the battery strap posts. The batteries come with a little protection for the edges. They have some thin Lexan sheet top and bottom. They also have a nice cushion front and back which explains the extra length. Both of these features will be useful on the touring car.
I will have to make or buy a new battery strap. One from a car that has 7 cell slots would probably fit.
Diff parts are not in yet.
John
I received the FMA direct 4800 mA-h packs. They weight in a 9.7 ounces. I did not check the dimensions very carefully, but the pack just fit between the bulkheads of the TC5. It is 150 mm long. I reversed the battery strap posts. The batteries come with a little protection for the edges. They have some thin Lexan sheet top and bottom. They also have a nice cushion front and back which explains the extra length. Both of these features will be useful on the touring car.
I will have to make or buy a new battery strap. One from a car that has 7 cell slots would probably fit.
Diff parts are not in yet.
John
09-24-2007, 01:16 PM
#234
Here is the new baterry strap. It used to be a broken Pantoura Chassis.
You must wear a respirator when cutting or sanding this material.
The baterry is placed as far in as it will fit. I can slide it out to get good balance. More on that later.
I plan to add two tape strips around the battery and the strap to hold it side to side.
John
You must wear a respirator when cutting or sanding this material.
The baterry is placed as far in as it will fit. I can slide it out to get good balance. More on that later.
I plan to add two tape strips around the battery and the strap to hold it side to side.
John
09-24-2007, 02:42 PM
#235
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Just a quick note John
i run a xray FK04 saddle chassis , & my brick type Li-Po are taped in with fibregalss tape (same as the c-cell guys use
i'm going to start a new thread with FK04 & my experiences' with 13.5/li-po running along side the 27t c-cell guys @1500g just to give racers more confidence in the new stuff out there
been asked how the li-po sit in the saddle chassis & how does it run
just general gassing really to pass the time
i run a xray FK04 saddle chassis , & my brick type Li-Po are taped in with fibregalss tape (same as the c-cell guys use
i'm going to start a new thread with FK04 & my experiences' with 13.5/li-po running along side the 27t c-cell guys @1500g just to give racers more confidence in the new stuff out there
been asked how the li-po sit in the saddle chassis & how does it run
just general gassing really to pass the time
09-24-2007, 03:23 PM
#236
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Here is the new baterry strap. It used to be a broken Pantoura Chassis.
You must wear a respirator when cutting or sanding this material.
The baterry is placed as far in as it will fit. I can slide it out to get good balance. More on that later.
I plan to add two tape strips around the battery and the strap to hold it side to side.
John
You must wear a respirator when cutting or sanding this material.
The baterry is placed as far in as it will fit. I can slide it out to get good balance. More on that later.
I plan to add two tape strips around the battery and the strap to hold it side to side.
John
Is that a nice healthy crack in your front wheel (inside of rim)?
09-24-2007, 05:12 PM
#237
Mr Jolly-Look forward to your thread.
B4 Bandit- You are not supposed to look in there. In the TC5's defense these are 1.5 year old tires that I got off the JRXS. I made the crack then. It was not much of a salvage either I can see the belts on three tires.
Here is a pic of the trial fit of the elctronics with the 4800 mA- Worley Parson's battery from FMA. I would use a similar setup for the Orion and Flightpower (TrackPower) Brick packs. Missing are some additional tape support to keep the battery positioned side to side.
I found you can move the capacitor to the other side of the speed control without lengthening the wires which is not reccomended. I straddled the fan with the wires.
Side to side weight 2 ounce light on the right. I will put the transponder over there somewhere.
Note that I changed batteries because the car dumped a fully charged pack tested at 4050 mA-h in its first race.
John
B4 Bandit- You are not supposed to look in there. In the TC5's defense these are 1.5 year old tires that I got off the JRXS. I made the crack then. It was not much of a salvage either I can see the belts on three tires.
Here is a pic of the trial fit of the elctronics with the 4800 mA- Worley Parson's battery from FMA. I would use a similar setup for the Orion and Flightpower (TrackPower) Brick packs. Missing are some additional tape support to keep the battery positioned side to side.
I found you can move the capacitor to the other side of the speed control without lengthening the wires which is not reccomended. I straddled the fan with the wires.
Side to side weight 2 ounce light on the right. I will put the transponder over there somewhere.
Note that I changed batteries because the car dumped a fully charged pack tested at 4050 mA-h in its first race.
John
Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-24-2007 at 05:24 PM.
09-24-2007, 08:01 PM
#238
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1.5 years?!?! That is some good usage!
09-25-2007, 12:29 AM
#239
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John
I have come across a isue with the 4800 orion pk going soft on me after about 30-40 races .like no zip to it like it was when new
contacted Mr Black ,he was really helpfull about it & understanding but he didn't think the battery was the problem
i disagree though i think it did go soft on me
still took same charge values & peaked up to just under 8.4 v ,but on track it was a bit dull
this is running with brushed 27t motors at the time about 2 year ago (i had a year off)
put a balencer on them & within 20 secs the cells were balenced
,thought it would take longer pk was 3/4 charged when i put balencer aswell ,tell by the 'fuel' gauge window on balencer
yet to use the orion after it sitting on my shelf for about a year (charged of course) ,using it on friday to see if it is okay
got a trakpower 4900 for a comparison or just incase (this is quick
just a quickie
i used to race at the top end in national 27t class & still be in the top end club wise ,so i know what i'm doing with gearing & setting up (if any doubt in my post)
I have come across a isue with the 4800 orion pk going soft on me after about 30-40 races .like no zip to it like it was when new
contacted Mr Black ,he was really helpfull about it & understanding but he didn't think the battery was the problem
i disagree though i think it did go soft on me
still took same charge values & peaked up to just under 8.4 v ,but on track it was a bit dull
this is running with brushed 27t motors at the time about 2 year ago (i had a year off)
put a balencer on them & within 20 secs the cells were balenced
,thought it would take longer pk was 3/4 charged when i put balencer aswell ,tell by the 'fuel' gauge window on balencer yet to use the orion after it sitting on my shelf for about a year (charged of course) ,using it on friday to see if it is okay
got a trakpower 4900 for a comparison or just incase (this is quick
just a quickie
i used to race at the top end in national 27t class & still be in the top end club wise ,so i know what i'm doing with gearing & setting up (if any doubt in my post)
09-25-2007, 09:40 AM
#240
Mr Jolly-I take it from your post that the new Trackpower is quicker. Tell me if I read your post right and please elaborate after you use it a bit. Most of this is probably from different chemistry in the cell. The Orion(KoKam) cell is a safer but unfortunately not quite as fast in my experience as an Ennerland cell. The Kokam do tend to have more useful cycles from test data that I have seen in other products, but our use requires performance to stay the same.
It is normal in my experience for the Lipos to deteriorate in runtime and voltage with use. This happens slower than with NiMH. I get about 50 runs with mod motors. I do notice that when I buy replacement Lipo's that they are quicker. With stock motors run in competition you may notice the deterioration in voltage more than I do and faster than I do. Small deteriorations in voltage makes your buddies car just a little bit faster. In mod traction is more an issue and a little bit weaker cell may compensate by being easier to maintain optimum forward traction.
I never could run a NiMH cell which I had tortured in mod with stock motors again. They always felt flat. Similarly, NiMH cells that were tested at 30 or 35 amps in the matching process seemed to come flat.
Thanks for the post.
John
It is normal in my experience for the Lipos to deteriorate in runtime and voltage with use. This happens slower than with NiMH. I get about 50 runs with mod motors. I do notice that when I buy replacement Lipo's that they are quicker. With stock motors run in competition you may notice the deterioration in voltage more than I do and faster than I do. Small deteriorations in voltage makes your buddies car just a little bit faster. In mod traction is more an issue and a little bit weaker cell may compensate by being easier to maintain optimum forward traction.
I never could run a NiMH cell which I had tortured in mod with stock motors again. They always felt flat. Similarly, NiMH cells that were tested at 30 or 35 amps in the matching process seemed to come flat.
Thanks for the post.
John
Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-25-2007 at 10:04 AM.
