NEW LRP Sports Brushless system
03-05-2007, 09:50 AM
#16
Tech Regular
Maybe all the manufactures should get together and put some kind of rules together.
So anyone have any good ideas on limiting these motors?
So anyone have any good ideas on limiting these motors?
03-05-2007, 09:55 AM
#17
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
Bull , I only need one brushless motor for ever
Even if Novak release a Spec 2 motor with more power or Orion release a 3600 LiPo which has better voltage under load?
Did anyone pledge to only use P2K's and only use GP3300s? At the time we thought they were the best and couldn't be bettered.
03-05-2007, 09:58 AM
#18
Originally Posted by sosidge
So will you pledge to keep the same motor and the same Orion cells forever?
Even if Novak release a Spec 2 motor with more power or Orion release a 3600 LiPo which has better voltage under load?
Did anyone pledge to only use P2K's and only use GP3300s? At the time we thought they were the best and couldn't be bettered.
Even if Novak release a Spec 2 motor with more power or Orion release a 3600 LiPo which has better voltage under load?
Did anyone pledge to only use P2K's and only use GP3300s? At the time we thought they were the best and couldn't be bettered.
if I went with the old tech ....
03-05-2007, 10:17 AM
#19
Originally Posted by or8ital
I was thinking the same thing. There need to be standards put into place quickly so that the brushless market doesnt get killed by all the alternatices. If tracks begin to allow anything with a 13.5 sticker on it in their stock classes then things will get out of control quickly. Alternatively people should be able to have a choice in the motors they buy. There are always going to be faster/better products but the differences between that and alternatives shouldnt be laps faster...
Originally Posted by kyle478
Maybe all the manufactures should get together and put some kind of rules together. So anyone have any good ideas on limiting these motors?
(Kv rating is no good because it takes torque completely out of the equation. It's a rating with no load. It gives you an idea, but it's not an accurate way to measure power of a motor. You need to look at both RPM and Torque to determine the power of a motor.)
HP (Watts) = RPM x Torque
746 Watts = 1 electric horsepower
I love to quote Big Jim who used to say:
"Horsepower is horsepower! Speed then, is just a matter of gearing."
It's been my opinion for some time, that ROAR should determine our classes by power. Examples:
Stock class: 100 Watts of power maximum
Super Stock class: 200 Watts of power maximum
Modified class: Unlimited power
This way, it does not matter who makes the motor, or how many windings it has, or the types of windings, or the magnets, bearings, or any technology etc.. This solution allows you to even mix and match brushed and brushless, and even different manufacturers. I think the only thing needed for this to happen is an increased availability of dynos.
Last edited by James35; 03-05-2007 at 10:37 AM.
03-05-2007, 10:44 AM
#20
People are delusional if they think the BL or LiPo will solve the problems we have currently. It's likely nothing will every solve that, racing will always be an arms race.
But, both technologies are significantly better than those they look to replace, and that alone is reason enough to move forward.
But, both technologies are significantly better than those they look to replace, and that alone is reason enough to move forward.
03-05-2007, 10:54 AM
#21
There must be a typo in the LRP press release. Where they claim "LRP presents the first ever sports level Brushless line."
They must have meant to say their first ever, since Novak has been offering sports-level brushless systems since 2003.
They must have meant to say their first ever, since Novak has been offering sports-level brushless systems since 2003.
03-05-2007, 11:02 AM
#22
Tech Adept
Originally Posted by syndr0me
People are delusional if they think the BL or LiPo will solve the problems we have currently. It's likely nothing will every solve that, racing will always be an arms race.
But, both technologies are significantly better than those they look to replace, and that alone is reason enough to move forward.
But, both technologies are significantly better than those they look to replace, and that alone is reason enough to move forward.
What brushless does is end the one of the high maintenance items that was required to compete in the hobby. Motor maintenance is wayyyy reduced.
Likewise, Lipos reduce battery maintenance.
I'd like to see one other area of maintenance reduced...but it will be a hard sell. Right now tracks are not designed to protect cars. In fact, I'm wonder if they aren't designed to damage cars so the shop will have a constant source of income. I'd like to see tracks designed so that impact energy was reduced...much like the changes they've made in the auto race industry with energy absorbing walls and huge infields that the cars can lose energy on without smacking hard into stuff. Sure you will still have your car on car impacts but the walls seem to do the most damage.
Imagine going a season where the consumables are tires and the latest greatest gear...instead of A-arms, rims and steering arms.
03-05-2007, 11:07 AM
#23
Originally Posted by Disaster
IMHO, the key here is not the ending of the "arms race." In fact, I think the arms race is good. Progress is good. Makes things more interesting.
What brushless does is end the one of the high maintenance items that was required to compete in the hobby. Motor maintenance is wayyyy reduced.
Likewise, Lipos reduce battery maintenance.
I'd like to see one other area of maintenance reduced...but it will be a hard sell. Right now tracks are not designed to protect cars. In fact, I'm wonder if they aren't designed to damage cars so the shop will have a constant source of income. I'd like to see tracks designed so that impact energy was reduced...much like the changes they've made in the auto race industry with energy absorbing walls and huge infields that the cars can lose energy on without smacking hard into stuff. Sure you will still have your car on car impacts but the walls seem to do the most damage.
Imagine going a season where the consumables are tires and the latest greatest gear...instead of A-arms, rims and steering arms.
What brushless does is end the one of the high maintenance items that was required to compete in the hobby. Motor maintenance is wayyyy reduced.
Likewise, Lipos reduce battery maintenance.
I'd like to see one other area of maintenance reduced...but it will be a hard sell. Right now tracks are not designed to protect cars. In fact, I'm wonder if they aren't designed to damage cars so the shop will have a constant source of income. I'd like to see tracks designed so that impact energy was reduced...much like the changes they've made in the auto race industry with energy absorbing walls and huge infields that the cars can lose energy on without smacking hard into stuff. Sure you will still have your car on car impacts but the walls seem to do the most damage.
Imagine going a season where the consumables are tires and the latest greatest gear...instead of A-arms, rims and steering arms.
03-05-2007, 11:11 AM
#24
Wild Cherry...muahdib4...
Just let it go guys. Theres no point in trying to convince people. If they're against BL/LiPo, they're usually going to stay that way until they have to switch. Then they will turn into those people who STILL feel the need to own 4 packs...5 motors...and two $400+ chargers. Then they'll say "see, this is just like brushed/NiMH."
I've been using the same Orion Platinum 4800 since Oct '05, AS MY ONLY PACK and its just as good as the new ones people are buying out of the case today. And somebody is going to convince me that thats ever going to be as bad as NiMH....yeah...okay.
We're rapping up a carpet season in which 95% of us haven't even opened up our motors all winter, and those that have were just adding the sintered rotor to keep motor temp under control. And somebody is going to say that thats ever going to be as bad as brushed motors...yeah...okay.
Will people still try to find/buy and advantage, of course they will. But they haven't figured it out yet. And hopefully the people with that mentality will stick to brushed/NiMH forever.
Well, we can hope can't we!
Just let it go guys. Theres no point in trying to convince people. If they're against BL/LiPo, they're usually going to stay that way until they have to switch. Then they will turn into those people who STILL feel the need to own 4 packs...5 motors...and two $400+ chargers. Then they'll say "see, this is just like brushed/NiMH."
I've been using the same Orion Platinum 4800 since Oct '05, AS MY ONLY PACK and its just as good as the new ones people are buying out of the case today. And somebody is going to convince me that thats ever going to be as bad as NiMH....yeah...okay.
We're rapping up a carpet season in which 95% of us haven't even opened up our motors all winter, and those that have were just adding the sintered rotor to keep motor temp under control. And somebody is going to say that thats ever going to be as bad as brushed motors...yeah...okay.
Will people still try to find/buy and advantage, of course they will. But they haven't figured it out yet. And hopefully the people with that mentality will stick to brushed/NiMH forever.
Well, we can hope can't we!
03-05-2007, 11:13 AM
#25
Now back on topic...
Like someone said before, this would be really good news if...as was mentioned...LRP didn't have a 1-2year gap between announcing new stuff and actually getting it on store shelves. I mean, I saw a pic of their new SphereTC speedcontrol I don't know how long ago, and I keep seeing it on the pro drivers cars....
...but unless I've missed it, it hasn't seen the retail shelves here in the states yet.
Like someone said before, this would be really good news if...as was mentioned...LRP didn't have a 1-2year gap between announcing new stuff and actually getting it on store shelves. I mean, I saw a pic of their new SphereTC speedcontrol I don't know how long ago, and I keep seeing it on the pro drivers cars....
...but unless I've missed it, it hasn't seen the retail shelves here in the states yet.
03-05-2007, 11:14 AM
#26
Tech Adept
Originally Posted by James35
It's been my opinion for some time, that ROAR should determine our classes by power. Examples:
Stock class: 100 Watts of power maximum
Super Stock class: 200 Watts of power maximum
Modified class: Unlimited power
This way, it does not matter who makes the motor, or how many windings it has, or the types of windings, or the magnets, bearings, or any technology etc.. This solution allows you to even mix and match brushed and brushless, and even different manufacturers. I think the only thing needed for this to happen is an increased availability of dynos.
Stock class: 100 Watts of power maximum
Super Stock class: 200 Watts of power maximum
Modified class: Unlimited power
This way, it does not matter who makes the motor, or how many windings it has, or the types of windings, or the magnets, bearings, or any technology etc.. This solution allows you to even mix and match brushed and brushless, and even different manufacturers. I think the only thing needed for this to happen is an increased availability of dynos.
I'm leaning toward limiting the delivered power. With the latest ESC's it wouldn't be too tough to limit the maximum delivered power.
Wouldn't it be great if you could use the same ESC to race in the stock and mod classes? There are lots of ways to prevent or reduce the risk of cheating. One way would be to have a mini-plug..like used with computers, that you would put across one connector to choose stock and another to choose mod.
Race any brushed or brushless motor you want but realize you aren't going to get anything more than 100 watts of max power and 12 volts....or whatever is set for the class.
That would leave the motor manufacturers to their arms races to develop the most efficient motors.
It could get real interesting.
03-05-2007, 11:50 AM
#27
Originally Posted by Darkseid
Wild Cherry...muahdib4...
Just let it go guys. Theres no point in trying to convince people. If they're against BL/LiPo, they're usually going to stay that way until they have to switch. Then they will turn into those people who STILL feel the need to own 4 packs...5 motors...and two $400+ chargers. Then they'll say "see, this is just like brushed/NiMH."
I've been using the same Orion Platinum 4800 since Oct '05, AS MY ONLY PACK and its just as good as the new ones people are buying out of the case today. And somebody is going to convince me that thats ever going to be as bad as NiMH....yeah...okay.
We're rapping up a carpet season in which 95% of us haven't even opened up our motors all winter, and those that have were just adding the sintered rotor to keep motor temp under control. And somebody is going to say that thats ever going to be as bad as brushed motors...yeah...okay.
Will people still try to find/buy and advantage, of course they will. But they haven't figured it out yet. And hopefully the people with that mentality will stick to brushed/NiMH forever.
Well, we can hope can't we!
Just let it go guys. Theres no point in trying to convince people. If they're against BL/LiPo, they're usually going to stay that way until they have to switch. Then they will turn into those people who STILL feel the need to own 4 packs...5 motors...and two $400+ chargers. Then they'll say "see, this is just like brushed/NiMH."
I've been using the same Orion Platinum 4800 since Oct '05, AS MY ONLY PACK and its just as good as the new ones people are buying out of the case today. And somebody is going to convince me that thats ever going to be as bad as NiMH....yeah...okay.
We're rapping up a carpet season in which 95% of us haven't even opened up our motors all winter, and those that have were just adding the sintered rotor to keep motor temp under control. And somebody is going to say that thats ever going to be as bad as brushed motors...yeah...okay.
Will people still try to find/buy and advantage, of course they will. But they haven't figured it out yet. And hopefully the people with that mentality will stick to brushed/NiMH forever.
Well, we can hope can't we!
I'm done trying to convince people of anything. I'm just going to race Minis with LiPo and be happy and if they come out with a silvercan equivilent in brushless and Core and Freq and whoever else decides to race Mini decide we all want to use the same one then that's what we'll do.
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