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Old 01-03-2007, 11:09 PM   #1
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Default Revive onroad club racing...how about a nostalgia class??

There's been a couple of threads lately about reviving onroad club racing and getting new blood into the hobby...

I've been in the hobby only 1 1/2 years (2 years if you count a brief stint with a 10th scale Pan Car in the late 80s) and the biggest turnoffs for me to onroad is the level of tuning nessesary to keep the cars going straight and the lack of body choices.

While I like late model GT cars, I grew up watching Group C and muscle cars race. I've gone to a bunch of vintage sports car races up here in the Northwest and really like seeing all the Can Am McClarens, Lolas, Porches, Ferrarris, etc..along with the 1950's sports cars such as the 57 Testa Rossa, D Jags, Maserati 450s's, etc. Then you have Shelby Mustangs, Cobras, Corvette Grand Sports, Ford GT40s, Ferrarri P3 and P4s, etc.. Etc. Etc....

To me, these were (and are) REAL race cars. The ALMS prototypes are neat, don't get me wrong...I especially like the front motored Panoz.... But I'm disapointed to see only a scant offering of these older bodies in the RC world.
I see these bodies on slot cars, but not on 10th scale RC cars.

Imagine if you had a nostalgia class at your local onroad track that included these type of bodies....heck, you could even do some fancy cutting and make roadsters out of coupes, etc... as long as they still looked scale.... add a chassis such as a F103GT or something similar that wouldn't be quite as daunting to tune, and you would have a seriously fun class. Heck, even mix the touring car chassis' with the pan car chassis'.... in Can AM's heyday they had very little in the way of rules and a lot of enginuity and innovation.... I'm 32 years old so I never got to see an actual race, but if the nostaligia races are any indication, it sure looked like fun to me

So who here thinks a "nostalgia class" would attract new racers to onroad? To the manufacturers... Why aren't threre more vintage bodies being produced when there should obviously be some sort of demand for them....?? Not all of us are into the import / tuner cars, after all.... And why do simpler onroad chassis seem to struggle in sales compared to the more complicated 4WD touring car chassis.. I know they are the top of the heap as far as racing goes...but again, you would think the simpler 2wd chassis would have some sort of appeal...

Everybody sound off!!

Attached are a few pics of cars I would like to see as 10th scale RC cars
(I'm sure this has been discussed before... if so, perhaps it's good to keep the topic in the forefront)
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Revive onroad club racing...how about a nostalgia class??-418-13.jpg   Revive onroad club racing...how about a nostalgia class??-422-1.jpg   Revive onroad club racing...how about a nostalgia class??-535-4.jpg   Revive onroad club racing...how about a nostalgia class??-1368-1.jpg  
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:36 AM   #2
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Why not just put a vintage style body on your own touring car? You don't have to run a race shell or do lots of tuning just because the others at the track do.

I think that licensing is becoming more and more of a factor in Vintage bodies. To do a body right (ie not have to call it a Purshh 917) is pretty costly. Plus the demand for an early 70s GT body is pretty limited compared to a current sports model.
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Old 01-04-2007, 04:10 AM   #3
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We tried to do this at our track. We originally were going to run silver can,rubber tire Minis, as a "fun class". The second week in, someone wanted to run their sedan with us. We asked him to pull his rear drive shafts off to make it equal. He did and all was well. Until next week. All of a sudden there were a couple more guys who wanted to run the class but only had touring cars. And they left them as 4wd. Needless to say, the fun went away real quick.
So in conclusion, I would have to say that after people have gotten used to the way a modern-ish sedan handles, it's hard to go back to old technology. Not to mention the advantage in gearing over a Mini.
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Old 01-04-2007, 04:31 AM   #4
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I'd love a GT inspired one-chassis-make class running controlled tires etc. I think it would be great!

We run Mini's here as a one make, silver can, unlimited tires class and it works quite well! Lotsa racing, very evenly matched cars on the whole - and lots of trash talking and fun!

That being said, lap times have dropped by about 3-4seconds a lap - firstly thanks to RnD of the cars, but also driving/setup. No matter what position in the field though, there is always racing to be had

Unfortunately, Mini's don't look half as cool as GT cars though
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Old 01-04-2007, 07:09 AM   #5
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Justinian that is a great post. I'll sound Off, Maybe a half price class would bring those cars out. It would be fun to see and watch. Just a thought to get poeple doing it. Stop by look see'ers would be more take'n in when they see it. I think as a competitive class around here it just wont work out as far as the amount of people to make a class. Offer it half price no transponders just buddy racing with vollenteer marshalls and it could grow. Also the sound half price would bring in poeple and you may just have a great beginners class. Also there fee to race could also actually be marshalling other races. You could be on to some thing. It will also bring out some of the poeple who just want to run laps. And hopfully it will get into the blood to race a second class. All it would take is a set of limits as to the particulars and done.

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Old 01-04-2007, 07:34 AM   #6
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At Tamiya the F103-GT's are the fastest growing class and when they go out everyone in the pits lines the track to watch. I would suggest using this chassis as it is cheap reliable and once dialed in is extremely easy to run and maintain, while giving excellent performance with a Silver can motor( especially when paired with Li-Po). HPI makes a couple really good Vintage Muscle car bodies (68 Camaro, 65 and 66 MustangGT, GT40) They are 200mm but you could use an upgraded rear pod and rear axle , offset wheels and make it wide enough. Also there are some companies that make some of the vintage CanAm bodies as well.

I would find an ideal tire and make a set tire rule based on tire availability, price, and performance.

One big factor that you always hear happen over and over is... rules are made everyone is happy the class grows then the rules are modified to include a couple of extra drivers they end up with a an advantage and the class dies. When organizing a racing class you need to stand by the rules if somebody shows up and is new let them enter but they should be docked a lap or penalized another way (maybe they are not scored) and then gven a week or two to make there car rules compliant. Far too often classes with 8+ drivers are killed off to try and appease 1-2 others this is a loosing proposition. If one or two guys go home upset but it makes 8 or more other guys happy then so be it. In any group activity majority must be allowed to rule to keep things rolling.
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Old 01-04-2007, 08:05 AM   #7
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...we should just start by having a class with no dish wheels (ie. spoked 26mm wheels only), and GT cars that are actually replicas of the real cars (ie. cars from Super GT, Speed GT, GT class at LeMans etc.) with replica wings only (ie. no giant lexan wings).

Chassis should be regular 4wd sedans to make it as simple as possible for everyone. At the very least the grid would look a lot better than the usual army of round lexan shapes.

Back in 04 at the JGTC race in Cal Speedway we did something like this (minus wheel rule), where it was JGTC spec bodies only. Overal the grid looked cooler and we can hear a lot people in the crowd being able to identify with the cars a lot better.

Bla bla bla



...oh and we also had a one race thing with vintage 65 and 66 Mustangs once with vintage style wheels and tires, which was also neatt. Complete with screeching tires and all...
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Old 01-04-2007, 09:14 AM   #8
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Definitely do away with the HUGE wings on the rear... That would have the BIGGEST impact... Limit the tires to 3 sets... Driver brings their own tires that will be Teched upon check-in... Drvier has choice to use Sorex, Take-Off ,RP or MuchMore tires ONLY...



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Old 01-04-2007, 09:26 AM   #9
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Was that meant to be posted in another thread??
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Old 01-04-2007, 09:38 AM   #10
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Here are links to a couple other threads that aren't vintage, but focus on scale look of race cars, fun, and simplified rules.

"Porsche Cup" F103GTs with HPI Porsche 911 bodies:
http://rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=139442

ASERS:
http://rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=140128

The ASERS group focuses on endurance races (2 hours and 45 minutes and longer), but I think the same rules and classes could be used for shorter races - 10, 15, 20 minutes.

See attached photo for their class structure simple (GT1), 'run what you brung' 4wd TC (GT2), to more advanced (P1 & P2).
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Old 01-04-2007, 09:40 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pheyhoe
Was that meant to be posted in another thread??

No..

Why?? My tire suggestion??..


We all know these tires work... everyone has used them (with maybe the exception of the MuchMore)...And they all are available at you LHS (again, with exception to the MuchMore) But to keep it from spiraling out of control with everyone using a fresh set every run ($$$), limit it to 3 sets... It's possible to make more than one good run with all these tires and keeps things interesting, Ask any enduro racer..

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Old 01-04-2007, 10:02 AM   #12
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didnt trinity start to make a class like this? they designed a car where they all preform the same, only 1 type of battery could be used and only 1 type of motor. i thought that was a good idea. it really tests driver and not so much who has the fastest car.
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Old 01-04-2007, 10:16 AM   #13
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Technology has killed TC racing, When the price of a TC is in the $400 range it's a very hard sell to a new RC'er. On the vintage "type" cars, a Pan car rocks, low tech, very fast, cool bodies..did I mention fast... ..On a carpet track a stock motor 6 cell pan car will put at least 2 laps on a 19 turn TC..this is with the assumption that you have like drivers in both cars. But as you guys have said it's a hard sell to get people to even try a pan car, If you do try a hooked up pan car (1/10 scale) on carpet you will be hooked..I know I was.. The Associated 10L2 is one of the best 235mm pan cars out their, If you ever get a chance you should try one, Lots of fun.
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:38 PM   #14
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South Shore on Long Island tried an "American Muscle" class a while back. Any touring car, 19 turn motor, but you had to use one of the nostalgia 60's muscle car bodies, like the Parma 69 Camaro. The class did well for a couple weeks. Then, about a week before a big trophy race at RC Madness in Connecticut, everyone abandoned it. "I want to practice for the big race" was everyone's excuse.

No one went back to it.
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Old 01-04-2007, 09:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sosidge
Why not just put a vintage style body on your own touring car? You don't have to run a race shell or do lots of tuning just because the others at the track do.

I think that licensing is becoming more and more of a factor in Vintage bodies. To do a body right (ie not have to call it a Purshh 917) is pretty costly. Plus the demand for an early 70s GT body is pretty limited compared to a current sports model.

It's funny about the licensing thing.... There are plenty of Porsche and Ferarri sports car bodies being built, but no prototype or vintage bodies..... you would think the licensing issues wouldn't be much different between the two types of bodies... You would also think if that was an issue, the slot car manufactures would also have problems with this....yet their selection is vastly greater...??

It would be interesting to hear from someone "in the know" at HPI to see how well their vintage shells are doing marketwise.... If they're making money off of them and are selling enough, perhaps the demand is more than we think....???

Since there isn't a 63 Corvette Grandsport body available, I purchased a RAE 63 Corvette 10th scale pro mod drag body just to see if it would fit my XXX-S. I may have to fasion some makeshift flares for it, but it appears it will fit... It should also fit on the F103GT that I'm going to be building soon. I'm going to cut the hoodscoop off of it and keep the rear deck, since cutting that would ruin the line of the car. Making it a roadster wouldn't ruin the line, but I'd need to fasion a filler piece of lexan to replace the trunk portion...I don't have anywhere near the skills necessary to do that I'll finish it off with a set of HPI 5 spoke chrome wheels (the narrow ones...not the vintage ones..) and takeoff 27s all around. At least I'll have something different and fun to run at the track.... may not have a class to run it in, but oh well.... I have offroad for that type of stuff

Oasis, my first ever hobby RC car was a Parma 1/10th scale fiberglass pan car...circa 1989 or 1990 ID say..? I used a Novak Speedo, a 7 cell nicad saddle pack, a Losi Brutus 16X3 (I think that was the wind) mod motor, and a 10th scale TOJ body with the big wing attached to the wing tubes. It had small little springs up front, silicone tubing for suspension in the rear (no shocks at all..) and was crazy fast even with the big foam donuts they used to come with... But I was running it on the street, since there were no tracks where I was at the time.... so I ended up getting rid of it after only a few months

I got a 12th scale car recently, but that thing is very, very touchy You have somthing just slightly off, and the thing will push to one side or the other and handle poorly. Since I've been in off road, I don't have a setup board yet (and don't know how to use one really..) so I'm struglling with that...

Also the foam tires are very fragile if you hit something, like I do all the time Back in the day I wasn't on a track with big burms and curbing, so I rarely chunked the tires...but now, I go through a set in a race night...talk about pricey

I'd try a 10th scale pan car again, and probably put a Lipo saddle pack in it and see how it would run.... but the foam tires still would worry me

Keep up the responses, I would like to see more input...especially regarding body types and making CLUB RACING more enjoyable....
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