Brushed or Brushless?
09-17-2003, 04:52 PM
#61
as for Li-Po batts and long run times. the dreams of 20+min heats......a hobby shop nightmare, for having to run races over several days. imagine the days/weeks it would take to run the NATS
I have about $600 in GP3300 alone (8 packs) I would gladly trade them all for 1 or 2 Li-Po packs. My quasar charger was $200 when I bought it, and the charger they recommend for the Li-Po is $150.
Also, I just bough $60 worth of brushes for my Mods alone, not including all the brushes I have for stock and 19t motors. Brushless will prove less expensive over time - say a coulple weeks!
09-17-2003, 04:59 PM
#62
you think that every body wants brushless
man people are steping over each other and ripping their arms off to get one!
wak up you and a couple guys want it so when you are on the side that wants it you think everyone does.
listen i repeat again for the last time.
its a good idea but the systems are not ready until then then we will race brushed motors i didnt say it wont happen just not in the near future!
hope and pray all you want its probably 2 years at least from happening .
as far as the batteries the technology is great but do you think the big manufactures want this NO THEY dont as long as they control the racing scene you wont see the motors or the batt in organized racing. its not a bad idea but the systems need to be perfected.
man people are steping over each other and ripping their arms off to get one!
wak up you and a couple guys want it so when you are on the side that wants it you think everyone does.
listen i repeat again for the last time.
its a good idea but the systems are not ready until then then we will race brushed motors i didnt say it wont happen just not in the near future!
hope and pray all you want its probably 2 years at least from happening .
as far as the batteries the technology is great but do you think the big manufactures want this NO THEY dont as long as they control the racing scene you wont see the motors or the batt in organized racing. its not a bad idea but the systems need to be perfected.
09-17-2003, 05:05 PM
#63
Okie Dokie......This is a great argument BUT I don't think anybody ever MEANT for it to become an argument.
There are those drivers who will be followers and those who will speak up, take a stand and be willing to look into the future.
Plainly I believe, as do many experts in the field, that brushless will be the norm for the electric side of the sport. As for ROAR..it is their expectation that we as members will help them to understand our wishes and needs. Those of us who are willing to see the benefits of new technology will be the ones to suggest that this technology be integrated into the ROAR program.
NO one here has said that the CURRENT crop of brushless systems has been perfected. But it would seem prudent for ROAR to be developing a plan to integrate a brushless class in the very near future.
As for the Florida series, I'm sure John Malin and others are wise enough to make any decisions about brushless when the time is right. As you said and I agree: the current generation of brushless systems may not be good enough to draw the interest of enough racers so that ROAR or other groups will instantly start a class for it. But be open minded and understand that the technology is on its way and neither you nor I could stop it even if we wanted to. This is not some radical change in existing motors that will give 1 company an edge over another....this is a complete new phase of systems that will revolutionize rc and many other industries that utilise electric systems.
Until I have an oppurtunity in my local area to race brushless...I'll be running stock and spec motors just like alot of others, But I sure look forward to Brushless and I'll throw my 2 cents worth in to show my support for it every chance I get !!!
There are those drivers who will be followers and those who will speak up, take a stand and be willing to look into the future.
Plainly I believe, as do many experts in the field, that brushless will be the norm for the electric side of the sport. As for ROAR..it is their expectation that we as members will help them to understand our wishes and needs. Those of us who are willing to see the benefits of new technology will be the ones to suggest that this technology be integrated into the ROAR program.
NO one here has said that the CURRENT crop of brushless systems has been perfected. But it would seem prudent for ROAR to be developing a plan to integrate a brushless class in the very near future.
As for the Florida series, I'm sure John Malin and others are wise enough to make any decisions about brushless when the time is right. As you said and I agree: the current generation of brushless systems may not be good enough to draw the interest of enough racers so that ROAR or other groups will instantly start a class for it. But be open minded and understand that the technology is on its way and neither you nor I could stop it even if we wanted to. This is not some radical change in existing motors that will give 1 company an edge over another....this is a complete new phase of systems that will revolutionize rc and many other industries that utilise electric systems.
Until I have an oppurtunity in my local area to race brushless...I'll be running stock and spec motors just like alot of others, But I sure look forward to Brushless and I'll throw my 2 cents worth in to show my support for it every chance I get !!!
09-17-2003, 05:12 PM
#64
evo you are right there until its recognized
i dont worry about it this was never taking or given as an aguement and wasnt the intention i am open minded and maybe in the future it well be the norm, but we race what we have now and as racers we all!!!! pray for better equipment that will let us enjoy our sport.
i am sure we can all agree we love r/c !!
i dont worry about it this was never taking or given as an aguement and wasnt the intention i am open minded and maybe in the future it well be the norm, but we race what we have now and as racers we all!!!! pray for better equipment that will let us enjoy our sport.
i am sure we can all agree we love r/c !!
09-17-2003, 05:38 PM
#65
Originally posted by speedxl
you think that every body wants brushless
man people are steping over each other and ripping their arms off to get one!
wak up you and a couple guys want it so when you are on the side that wants it you think everyone does.
listen i repeat again for the last time.
its a good idea but the systems are not ready until then then we will race brushed motors i didnt say it wont happen just not in the near future!
hope and pray all you want its probably 2 years at least from happening .
as far as the batteries the technology is great but do you think the big manufactures want this NO THEY dont as long as they control the racing scene you wont see the motors or the batt in organized racing. its not a bad idea but the systems need to be perfected.
you think that every body wants brushless
man people are steping over each other and ripping their arms off to get one!
wak up you and a couple guys want it so when you are on the side that wants it you think everyone does.
listen i repeat again for the last time.
its a good idea but the systems are not ready until then then we will race brushed motors i didnt say it wont happen just not in the near future!
hope and pray all you want its probably 2 years at least from happening .
as far as the batteries the technology is great but do you think the big manufactures want this NO THEY dont as long as they control the racing scene you wont see the motors or the batt in organized racing. its not a bad idea but the systems need to be perfected.
B) Everything I have said has been very simple and clear cut.
C) The system is ready to be raced, they are being used sucessfully in Australia as per "VenomWorldOrder" responce, many others in Aus are using them sucessfully as well. Head to the Aussie forum and check it out.
D) "Nothing will ever be completely perfected, technology is ever growing and products are getting better and better(example - Batteries)." - I meant that the current crop of batteries 3300nimh cells are getting better and better.. I was not refering to poly lithium cells.
Opsss...... edit
Last edited by fatdoggy; 09-17-2003 at 06:01 PM.
09-17-2003, 05:43 PM
#66
goodnight! evo see you at the edgwater state race!
09-17-2003, 06:02 PM
#67
Tech Adept
oh man brushless vs brushed always makes for interseting conversion!!!
09-17-2003, 06:04 PM
#68
Not as good as Foams v.s. Rubber. 
Please don't go there.
P.s. edited last post, I read evo's responce wrong and posted incorrect info.
Please don't go there.P.s. edited last post, I read evo's responce wrong and posted incorrect info.
09-17-2003, 06:29 PM
#69
Tech Master
ok brushless motors have a long long way to go in my book..
1 monster problem is seperation of the classes?
with the tuning being done with lap tops and other gadgets who in the heck is gonna police who was using what setting?
so we will have one class of racing "brushless" i guess it would be brushless "novice" brushless "rookie" brushless "pro" and thats it.
and that brings me to problem number 2 IF TRINITY DOES NOT SUPPORT BRUSHLESS THERE WILL BE NO BRUSHLESS! hate them or love them they run the electric r/c scene ..
what may happen sooner than later is this.. 2 classes brushless and brush
there will be more and more combo type races..lump all the brushless hacks into one class and than have your old school stock 19 turn and mod brushed classes like usual?
brushless has a place just not sure exactly where yet?
touring car using a brushless motor and running 15 minutes will get out of control expensive fast! TIRES FELLAS 15 minutes is equal to 4 minutes of practice and a entire day of racing..not sure about you guys but most of the fast guys run a new set every 4 minutes when allowed..one 15 minute run will throw a wrench into that?
foams you say? same deal they cut them down so low now 15 minutes and throw them away..our way of life will be changed forever,lol. besides novak is crap and until LRP or KEYENCE makes a brushless set-up i aint touching one!
btw hector troy schaefer is chomping at the bit to run or go brushless..it may be more divided than you think? as of today i still am not impressed with brushless..next year though? maybe..never say never..
1 monster problem is seperation of the classes?
with the tuning being done with lap tops and other gadgets who in the heck is gonna police who was using what setting?
so we will have one class of racing "brushless" i guess it would be brushless "novice" brushless "rookie" brushless "pro" and thats it.
and that brings me to problem number 2 IF TRINITY DOES NOT SUPPORT BRUSHLESS THERE WILL BE NO BRUSHLESS! hate them or love them they run the electric r/c scene ..
what may happen sooner than later is this.. 2 classes brushless and brush
there will be more and more combo type races..lump all the brushless hacks into one class and than have your old school stock 19 turn and mod brushed classes like usual?
brushless has a place just not sure exactly where yet?
touring car using a brushless motor and running 15 minutes will get out of control expensive fast! TIRES FELLAS 15 minutes is equal to 4 minutes of practice and a entire day of racing..not sure about you guys but most of the fast guys run a new set every 4 minutes when allowed..one 15 minute run will throw a wrench into that?
foams you say? same deal they cut them down so low now 15 minutes and throw them away..our way of life will be changed forever,lol. besides novak is crap and until LRP or KEYENCE makes a brushless set-up i aint touching one!
btw hector troy schaefer is chomping at the bit to run or go brushless..it may be more divided than you think? as of today i still am not impressed with brushless..next year though? maybe..never say never..
09-17-2003, 06:51 PM
#70
It's so funny to read all these post and none of you guys run a brushless and go on what you have read. To be honest and take it from me I have run one for over a year it's the go.
It should be run with brushed motors and not another class.
No you will not race for 15 mins, do you want another battery war on your hands. At 5 mins you will be as quick as a brushed motor.
I would say go out and get a schulze speedie the 90 amp one and a hacker 7 turn motor. I run a Hacker Comp speedy and a 6 turn motor. the son of the owner of Hacker uses a Schulze speedy and a hacker 7 turn. I think this is the go and game over. The 6 turn is really too much punch, the speedy I have been testing was the schulze and is really really smooth baby compared to the Hacker.
Believe me if anybody is wanting to take the jump then you will not be dissapointed. As for performance, I have been at the top end of the field with it but a brushless you not put you in the A main. Car setup and driving will, but with a brushless you will have heaps more time to worry about that.
Coxy.
PS if anybody wants to talk to me more about this then PM me and find out more on gearing and timming and stuff.
Coxy.
It should be run with brushed motors and not another class.
No you will not race for 15 mins, do you want another battery war on your hands. At 5 mins you will be as quick as a brushed motor.
I would say go out and get a schulze speedie the 90 amp one and a hacker 7 turn motor. I run a Hacker Comp speedy and a 6 turn motor. the son of the owner of Hacker uses a Schulze speedy and a hacker 7 turn. I think this is the go and game over. The 6 turn is really too much punch, the speedy I have been testing was the schulze and is really really smooth baby compared to the Hacker.
Believe me if anybody is wanting to take the jump then you will not be dissapointed. As for performance, I have been at the top end of the field with it but a brushless you not put you in the A main. Car setup and driving will, but with a brushless you will have heaps more time to worry about that.
Coxy.
PS if anybody wants to talk to me more about this then PM me and find out more on gearing and timming and stuff.
Coxy.
09-17-2003, 07:48 PM
#71
Tech Initiate
Didn't I read somewhere that brush and comm wear at the 10-turn limited Reedy race was so severe -- some not even lasting one race -- they are thinking of running a 4-cell class next year?
Is this the future of brushed motors -- wind and battery limits?
If so, I pray that BL takes hold.
And, as far as us needing Trinity to get on the bandwagon, history is rittled with the "small guy" clobbering the big behemoth. Dell, Lowe's and Microsoft come to mind. Thank goodness the customer drives the market, and not companies.
Is this the future of brushed motors -- wind and battery limits?
If so, I pray that BL takes hold.
And, as far as us needing Trinity to get on the bandwagon, history is rittled with the "small guy" clobbering the big behemoth. Dell, Lowe's and Microsoft come to mind. Thank goodness the customer drives the market, and not companies.
09-17-2003, 08:08 PM
#72
Ucheatulose......Somehow,I don't think Trinity will stay off the brushless bandwagon for to long. Trinity will cough up good money to re-market some other companies product if they don't develop one themselves.I doubt that motor companies are going to continue to develop radical new brushed motors. Trinity is a marketing company.....when the time is right they too will offer some brushless system with their name on it.
It's actually difficult to see just how the classes will be set up if things go all brushless. The weird thing with BL is that the system offers so much versatility as compared to a brushed motor. No more different winds, turns, brush types, bushings, bearings. One motor does it all. Now the definition between classes will be at the electronic level. Sealed cases will make tampering with ESC's difficult. On the other hand, this should make the playing field more level regarding motor power. The shift will be toward chassis setup and driver ability. Not a bad idea !!!
Will brushed motors disappear??? Don't know....there being used in alot of different applications. Can motors will probably be around for a long while. There cheap and easy.
Quite honestly , the question you should be asking is ..."where will brushed motors fit in??" Brushless motors are the wave of the future in electric power. The companies that make motors must see product viability or they will stop production. The economics of brushless motors may make brushed motors extinct. Remember, we're not the only end users!!! In fact ,we're an extremely small segment of the market.
It's actually difficult to see just how the classes will be set up if things go all brushless. The weird thing with BL is that the system offers so much versatility as compared to a brushed motor. No more different winds, turns, brush types, bushings, bearings. One motor does it all. Now the definition between classes will be at the electronic level. Sealed cases will make tampering with ESC's difficult. On the other hand, this should make the playing field more level regarding motor power. The shift will be toward chassis setup and driver ability. Not a bad idea !!!
Will brushed motors disappear??? Don't know....there being used in alot of different applications. Can motors will probably be around for a long while. There cheap and easy.
Quite honestly , the question you should be asking is ..."where will brushed motors fit in??" Brushless motors are the wave of the future in electric power. The companies that make motors must see product viability or they will stop production. The economics of brushless motors may make brushed motors extinct. Remember, we're not the only end users!!! In fact ,we're an extremely small segment of the market.
Last edited by Evoracer; 09-18-2003 at 04:18 AM.
09-17-2003, 11:35 PM
#73
Always good to see the blood pumping in a discussion like this 
09-18-2003, 12:48 AM
#74
FYI. Epic is Trinity. EP in Epic stand for Ernie Provetti.
09-18-2003, 01:30 AM
#75
Evoracer - The easiest setup would be to have a device in between the motor and the esc(or batt and esc) that limited the amp's drawn by the motor . These could be named and rated as equivalets of brushed motors. 12T limiter makes the motor feel like a 12T brushed motor, 10T limiter feels like a 10T brushed motor and so on..... This would eliminate any advantage that esc tampering would give you. One problem would be that they would get rather hot though.... 