ROAR to 4 cell....
11-23-2006, 08:50 PM
#181
Originally Posted by BigDogRacing
Advil, let me point out that I'm not PRO 4cell touring nor am I con, I'm just looking at the big picture.
Are you saying that you will never ever replace the motor on your BL setup? Even if a better newer more efficient one is made?
Let's say the lighter 4 cell car is just as fast, breaks less parts, decreases tire and wear by 50%, and costs you less EVERY TIME you go to race. Are you saying you will quit anyway?
Honestly, I'm not trying to tap dance on your nads bro, I'm just saying if it really is better for the sport and we can all benefit from it, why be so strongly against it? Why not be the guy that tests it out not to prove it's better, but to prove it's NOT better? Don't be so adamant to resist change without having hard evidence to agrue the change.
Bob- are you saying that newbs can't move their speedos over to the other side and buy a 4 or 5cell stick pack? It wouldn't be too terribly expensive to take their 6cell stick packs to a local racer or Batteries Plus and have one or two cells removed. Especially for a change to 4cell. Cut the two end cells off, weld a new strap across, stick the end cap back on and reshrink. ten minutes TOPS. Afraid you're gonna get stuck with a bunch of 6cell stick packs? Heck send them all to me. I work at Batteries Plus in Memphis part time- I'll hack the cells and make it a 4 cell packs for free (as long as I get to keep the cell(s) I remove).
Bottom line- whether it's a good move or not, lets get behind ROAR, help with the testing, and try NOT TO TURN THIS INTO YET ANOTHER MFing BITCH FEST.
I look at the names on this thread and I think "geez, haven't these guys been in r/c racing long enough to know that we are our own worst enemies????" I know I have, and I get sick of the constant complaining. If you don't like it, get off your damn a$$, prove to me that (fill in the blank) won't save me money or grow the sport or make the racing more fun or all of the above, and then show me. Advil this isn't aimed at you- it's for all the complainers and poop stirring haters out there.
You can be a problem, or you can be a problem solver. I choose the latter.
*BigDog quietly steps off his soap box....
Are you saying that you will never ever replace the motor on your BL setup? Even if a better newer more efficient one is made?
Let's say the lighter 4 cell car is just as fast, breaks less parts, decreases tire and wear by 50%, and costs you less EVERY TIME you go to race. Are you saying you will quit anyway?
Honestly, I'm not trying to tap dance on your nads bro, I'm just saying if it really is better for the sport and we can all benefit from it, why be so strongly against it? Why not be the guy that tests it out not to prove it's better, but to prove it's NOT better? Don't be so adamant to resist change without having hard evidence to agrue the change.
Bob- are you saying that newbs can't move their speedos over to the other side and buy a 4 or 5cell stick pack? It wouldn't be too terribly expensive to take their 6cell stick packs to a local racer or Batteries Plus and have one or two cells removed. Especially for a change to 4cell. Cut the two end cells off, weld a new strap across, stick the end cap back on and reshrink. ten minutes TOPS. Afraid you're gonna get stuck with a bunch of 6cell stick packs? Heck send them all to me. I work at Batteries Plus in Memphis part time- I'll hack the cells and make it a 4 cell packs for free (as long as I get to keep the cell(s) I remove).
Bottom line- whether it's a good move or not, lets get behind ROAR, help with the testing, and try NOT TO TURN THIS INTO YET ANOTHER MFing BITCH FEST.
I look at the names on this thread and I think "geez, haven't these guys been in r/c racing long enough to know that we are our own worst enemies????" I know I have, and I get sick of the constant complaining. If you don't like it, get off your damn a$$, prove to me that (fill in the blank) won't save me money or grow the sport or make the racing more fun or all of the above, and then show me. Advil this isn't aimed at you- it's for all the complainers and poop stirring haters out there.
You can be a problem, or you can be a problem solver. I choose the latter.
*BigDog quietly steps off his soap box....
Of couse I will replace my equipment..when I deem it is necessary or I just want something new. I don't see it as necessary RIGHT NOW but if ROAR goes to 4 cell mod I will HAVE TO buy a 3.5. I know it, experience tells me this is so.
4 cell cars will be designed lighter and with more breakable components. The durability we have right now will not be needed and in an effort to go faster the manufacturers will lighten the cars. They will break easier....Tires will be made softer to gain speed and will then wear out just as quick as they do now. Electronics that don't have to be made to handle 6 cell packs will be built to only handle 4 cell at max and we will once again be blowing these up too. I just don't see how this is "better" for the hobby. I really don't...
I really don't need hard evidence as the manufactures will do what they know best as in watch the bottom line....follow the money as they say. The above changes will be profitable to them....no rocket science required. LOL
11-23-2006, 09:08 PM
#182
4 cells or not. I still don't get why they want to reduce the cell count.
Sure 4 cells are lighter and the cars can be too.. If what I read is that "its not much slower" then the excuse of slowing the cars down doesn't hold water.
The racing is going to be just as fast?.. hey we ran 1200's back in the day and its always been 6 cells.
I'de like to here a valid reason why we should change.. not because europe or japan wants to..
If its because of money? then thats a load. It will turn into a battery war. to get max fresh cells to be fast. Right now the avg packs are great it will force us to go to more expensive hyper matched and zapped 2 run cells to be fast. so it isnt going to make it cheaper to race. It will cost more and less poeple will be racing and it will kill the sport.
Is it because poeple will buy more motors? Thats a load too. everyone will just go to a lower wind.. stocker will go to 19t 19t will go to mod and so forth..you will sell more motors initally so everyone is force to switch.. but after the rush it will be back where we are today.
Can someone tell us the real reason why it needs to change? I suggest you follow the money.. who is going to profit from this new adoption?
I have personally tried 4 cell tc.. its even harder on the cells since you have top push them pretty hard to get performance that we are used to.
I can tell you one thing though.. going to 4 cells will ultimately wipe out the TC class and well all go back to pan cars. hence the 190mm 4 cell pandura cars.
Why doesn't ROAR focus on getting more poeple into RC racing instead of trying to regulate it backwards.
Me, I probably would go back to nitro racing. I bet so piss ant ROAR excomm person would decide that nitro was too fast and make the motors smaller or require more weight or some other dumbass idea..just because.
Who cares what the international eureopean or japanese want to do. 99% of us never race in an international event and if one wants to then they can fit the spec if thats what the race spec calls for.
Many tracks have now adopted BL and lipo.. why, because thats the newest technology and we as consumers want to have it.and we want to haul ass why because its fun!
ROAR get that through your freeking head we do this hobby because were here to play have fun and use the latest stuff. .. you don't see the excomm pussywhips using a rotary phone or typewriter do you..or sending snail mail..
thats old skool technology.
What gives you the right to regulate backwards!?
Sure 4 cells are lighter and the cars can be too.. If what I read is that "its not much slower" then the excuse of slowing the cars down doesn't hold water.
The racing is going to be just as fast?.. hey we ran 1200's back in the day and its always been 6 cells.
I'de like to here a valid reason why we should change.. not because europe or japan wants to..
If its because of money? then thats a load. It will turn into a battery war. to get max fresh cells to be fast. Right now the avg packs are great it will force us to go to more expensive hyper matched and zapped 2 run cells to be fast. so it isnt going to make it cheaper to race. It will cost more and less poeple will be racing and it will kill the sport.
Is it because poeple will buy more motors? Thats a load too. everyone will just go to a lower wind.. stocker will go to 19t 19t will go to mod and so forth..you will sell more motors initally so everyone is force to switch.. but after the rush it will be back where we are today.
Can someone tell us the real reason why it needs to change? I suggest you follow the money.. who is going to profit from this new adoption?
I have personally tried 4 cell tc.. its even harder on the cells since you have top push them pretty hard to get performance that we are used to.
I can tell you one thing though.. going to 4 cells will ultimately wipe out the TC class and well all go back to pan cars. hence the 190mm 4 cell pandura cars.
Why doesn't ROAR focus on getting more poeple into RC racing instead of trying to regulate it backwards.
Me, I probably would go back to nitro racing. I bet so piss ant ROAR excomm person would decide that nitro was too fast and make the motors smaller or require more weight or some other dumbass idea..just because.
Who cares what the international eureopean or japanese want to do. 99% of us never race in an international event and if one wants to then they can fit the spec if thats what the race spec calls for.
Many tracks have now adopted BL and lipo.. why, because thats the newest technology and we as consumers want to have it.and we want to haul ass why because its fun!
ROAR get that through your freeking head we do this hobby because were here to play have fun and use the latest stuff. .. you don't see the excomm pussywhips using a rotary phone or typewriter do you..or sending snail mail..
thats old skool technology.
What gives you the right to regulate backwards!?
11-23-2006, 09:15 PM
#183
.
im not a full blown racer at all
me and a few buddies go and run from time to time for poop's and giggle's
and have a blast talking smack to each other same crap we did back in the when the black foot was king of the mountain
im just wondering were the noob's looking into racing are getting the cash for the second charger for the receiver pack
not to mention they might have to pick up a larger power supply to run 2 charger's
i saw someone post a bl weighs a gram or an oz more then a brushed motor
i cant remember which it was
but you lose the weight on the cells
only to add more weight in wire + fan and a receiver pack
and more crap to carry to the track
not to mention the speed on the servo will drop fast
i see the response time on my servo's drop after a half a tank and a few laps or horsing around
as for the people saying 4 cell packs run for long periods of time in a 12th scale
seems like comparing run time's and speeds is like saying yo billy bob yank that 383 stroker out of your nova that ran a 10.40 in the 1/4
lets drop it in that pick up
i was thinking about selling most of my gear and going tc after my move to fl
just another push towrds the fh stadium for me
even if premium hits 10.00 a gallon i would still be out of the stress and saving some major coin
me and a few buddies go and run from time to time for poop's and giggle's
and have a blast talking smack to each other same crap we did back in the when the black foot was king of the mountain
im just wondering were the noob's looking into racing are getting the cash for the second charger for the receiver pack
not to mention they might have to pick up a larger power supply to run 2 charger's
i saw someone post a bl weighs a gram or an oz more then a brushed motor
i cant remember which it was
but you lose the weight on the cells
only to add more weight in wire + fan and a receiver pack
and more crap to carry to the track
not to mention the speed on the servo will drop fast
i see the response time on my servo's drop after a half a tank and a few laps or horsing around
as for the people saying 4 cell packs run for long periods of time in a 12th scale
seems like comparing run time's and speeds is like saying yo billy bob yank that 383 stroker out of your nova that ran a 10.40 in the 1/4
lets drop it in that pick up
i was thinking about selling most of my gear and going tc after my move to fl
just another push towrds the fh stadium for me
even if premium hits 10.00 a gallon i would still be out of the stress and saving some major coin
11-23-2006, 09:18 PM
#184
Originally Posted by BigDogRacing
Bob- are you saying that newbs can't move their speedos over to the other side and buy a 4 or 5cell stick pack? It wouldn't be too terribly expensive to take their 6cell stick packs to a local racer or Batteries Plus and have one or two cells removed. Especially for a change to 4cell. Cut the two end cells off, weld a new strap across, stick the end cap back on and reshrink. ten minutes TOPS. Afraid you're gonna get stuck with a bunch of 6cell stick packs? Heck send them all to me. I work at Batteries Plus in Memphis part time- I'll hack the cells and make it a 4 cell packs for free (as long as I get to keep the cell(s) I remove).
Please, don't ever assume that what I say has anything to do with personal or corporate gain. It does not. In fact, a major change like this would be GREAT for us.
Want a laugh? GO to our site and download the battery blowout flyer. It's 90% 4 cell packs. About the DEAD opposite of what you'd think, if this was about a corporate gain of any kind.
But I personally don't believe changing the batterys is the right answer. The batteries work fine, we need to fix motors and speedos.
If it weren't for the one little link in my sig, most people would never know who I am, and then, most still never put that 2+2 together.
I am NEVER here as a business man, look back at any of my posts. I'm here as an enthusiast, just like the rest. This is all I've done with my life for well over 20 years now. It's not so much a hobby, as how I live my life, and I'm pretty pationate about it. as are a lot of others. So please, never look at it that way.
11-23-2006, 09:47 PM
#187
Tech Master
This thread is funny.. The internet makes us all in to experts. Some organize their thoughts into really good arguments but it is always about what is good for them and not the hobby. Why dont we throw all the rules out the window and run whatcha brung. Sometimes we argue for personal reasons as to why things should be this or that. I hope the decision is made by ROAR and those that want to race will race and the rest sbould buy a T-Maxx burn the midnight oil....
11-23-2006, 09:54 PM
#188
Tech Regular
We were talking about this 4 cell crap the other day at the track, I was thinking it was a good idea. One guy, I think it was Bobby, asked me if I wanted to run my 1/8 scale gas car with a .12 instead of a .21....nope! And that pretty much ended the discussion.
11-23-2006, 09:58 PM
#189
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
Racing is ALWAYS about speed, fastest from point A to point B, first guy to cross the line. The HOBBY on the other hand is not always about speed. I think people tend to confuse those.
The reason that some people go faster with 19t is NOW, finally, anybody has the batterys, tires, chassis, to simply go as fast as they are capable. You no longer need the fastest motor to turn the fastest laps. How great is it that people finally have more power than they can use and have to make motor decisions to turn quicker lap times. THAT'S AWESOME!!!
And when I say "anybody", maybe I should correct that to exclude the top 100 US drivers and national and world champions, and change "anybody" to "EVERYBODY" has more battery than they need. It's a great time to be the average club racer right now. You can go as fast as you can keep it between the boards. And come back with battery to spare.
The gas tank on your car (battery) is finally full and useable. Now you have to make decisions on your motor and the track. COURSE MANAGEMENT! Let the smart drivers win, not the ones with the biggest wallets.
.................
Make no mistake, the slowest classes will pay the biggest price. You thought stock was a battery problem when the cars were reasonably fast? See what happens when you pull a few cells out of the equation.
The reason that some people go faster with 19t is NOW, finally, anybody has the batterys, tires, chassis, to simply go as fast as they are capable. You no longer need the fastest motor to turn the fastest laps. How great is it that people finally have more power than they can use and have to make motor decisions to turn quicker lap times. THAT'S AWESOME!!!
And when I say "anybody", maybe I should correct that to exclude the top 100 US drivers and national and world champions, and change "anybody" to "EVERYBODY" has more battery than they need. It's a great time to be the average club racer right now. You can go as fast as you can keep it between the boards. And come back with battery to spare.
The gas tank on your car (battery) is finally full and useable. Now you have to make decisions on your motor and the track. COURSE MANAGEMENT! Let the smart drivers win, not the ones with the biggest wallets.
.................
Make no mistake, the slowest classes will pay the biggest price. You thought stock was a battery problem when the cars were reasonably fast? See what happens when you pull a few cells out of the equation.
Why we have to follow Japanese standard ? ( going 4 cell ? )
Racing in nature is all about speed and money.
Winning a race is all about smart strategy, team works, driving skills, and luck.
Once we shift to 4 cells rules, people with deepest pockets will buy the super voltage matched battery, while regular drivers and newbies could only wish to run at his speed.
Current battery technology permit everyone with unmatched cells to run very close to matched cells. The battery price is going down recently, and they ( battery sellers & matchers ) want to jack up the price back to 1990 : Overprice battery
Last edited by asw7576; 11-23-2006 at 10:22 PM.
11-23-2006, 10:02 PM
#190
I love very few people are thinking of the noobies, Yea lets make everything 4 cell so that people who have sport pre-built packs have to buy all new packs so they can race at there local track...Yea that makes sense, it will definetly be cheaper for the average person who wants to play around on the street and go fast. NOT!
Roar is so damn stupid! Let me ask, Did oval racing get more or less popular after they had to go to 4 cell???
Is it true we can vote Roar to be gone? and start a REAL organization that cares bout racing? I mean look at the roar officials at races....Not one single racer likes them!! And they could give a shit less about racing. They are just there to be there!
Roar is so damn stupid! Let me ask, Did oval racing get more or less popular after they had to go to 4 cell???
Is it true we can vote Roar to be gone? and start a REAL organization that cares bout racing? I mean look at the roar officials at races....Not one single racer likes them!! And they could give a shit less about racing. They are just there to be there!
11-23-2006, 10:05 PM
#191
I think F-1 Cars should have 500 less horsepower so that all types of racing can go backwards instead of fowards!!
11-23-2006, 10:06 PM
#192
Or maybe we can start racing in reverse!!! with 2 cells!! and have a 7 mm ride height limit!!
11-23-2006, 10:07 PM
#193
I'm not sure what I think of 4 cell or not. I'm leaning towards it's stupid. But the jury is still out. We have a 2 people locally willing to run 12th mod. If those two run alone that leaves 2-3 for 12th stock. We have never had enough turnout to allow for a mod class. Keep in mind this isn't sandbagging stock guys...just total lack of turnout for everything.
But, just to see if it sucks or not, I'm going to throw one of my 4 cell packs in my JRXS and see what it does. I might as well try it so I can say with certainty, "I tried it and it _____!"
But, just to see if it sucks or not, I'm going to throw one of my 4 cell packs in my JRXS and see what it does. I might as well try it so I can say with certainty, "I tried it and it _____!"
11-23-2006, 10:19 PM
#194
LMAO you guys are great...you are making me really enjoy this late night. You have a bunch of idiots who think that going faster on the track is about pure speed bitching to a group of morons who make changes for the mass populous "in their best interest" without consulting them.
It's hilarious.
I hope this offends each and everyone of you and you wake up and relize that you are talking about toy cars....so what if the spoiled few who get their stuff for free have to drive differently to make run time....It seems to me that people ran 12th scale mod for 8 minutes with 1700's. Racing is about adaptation. The one who adapts the quickest will have the best chance to win.
And ROAR you are idiots for not consulting your members. What good is it to have a official organization that makes decisions that drives all it's racers from attending its events...well except for those few spoiled guys who will bitch anyway.
As you can see I am lashing out at everyone because I believe this was handled stupidly. ROAR Should have added an exhibition class to the every national and regional event it holds this year to test this out....they did it before in offroad with 19 Turn so dont tell me they couldnt do it now.
personally I have watched one of the top stock drivers in the country run with 4 cells (because two actually vented as the car was put down) and he said yes it was slower but he was 3 seconds quicker overall. And that was without the benefit of reduced weight and balancing the car. 4 cells can work, but it's different. remember...people hate things that are different.
It's hilarious.
I hope this offends each and everyone of you and you wake up and relize that you are talking about toy cars....so what if the spoiled few who get their stuff for free have to drive differently to make run time....It seems to me that people ran 12th scale mod for 8 minutes with 1700's. Racing is about adaptation. The one who adapts the quickest will have the best chance to win.
And ROAR you are idiots for not consulting your members. What good is it to have a official organization that makes decisions that drives all it's racers from attending its events...well except for those few spoiled guys who will bitch anyway.
As you can see I am lashing out at everyone because I believe this was handled stupidly. ROAR Should have added an exhibition class to the every national and regional event it holds this year to test this out....they did it before in offroad with 19 Turn so dont tell me they couldnt do it now.
personally I have watched one of the top stock drivers in the country run with 4 cells (because two actually vented as the car was put down) and he said yes it was slower but he was 3 seconds quicker overall. And that was without the benefit of reduced weight and balancing the car. 4 cells can work, but it's different. remember...people hate things that are different.
11-23-2006, 10:23 PM
#195
Tech Apprentice
Well said Bob Barry!!!!