Eddie, Carl, and Mike....finally a polarizing issue
11-09-2006, 01:58 AM
#61
Tech Adept
Originally Posted by Charlie
we all need to look at it differently, not just as a racer, or as a basher, but as both. A Rasher. 
Sorry.
Sorry.It's true, I see a lot of debating between bash-minded people, and race-minded people. (Check out Buono and Hodge on page 2) As well as debates between world-championship-type racers and saturday-night-parking-lot-type racers.
That being said, I don't see why we can't 'rash' with 5 cells :-)
11-09-2006, 05:16 AM
#62
Tech Adept
iTrader: (2)
Dropping cells will only widen the gap between the good guys and the new guys. It will only tear up more electronic equipment. Voltage is your friend and your limitation is at the wrong end. Go with a higher voltage and limit the motors so that the motor is slower. The higher voltage cuts down on your heat and the fans associated with it. Also if you want a stock class ROAR should work with the manufacturers and have a set rollout for a class.
Then if you want to get really sick with it get the manufacturers to build a brushless\brushed controller that can limit RPM's to a set level and actually do this well. Now you are down to driver and setup. If you go down to 4 or 5 cell you will just see the guys who are willing to abuse their equipment and replace it win the races.
Then if you want to get really sick with it get the manufacturers to build a brushless\brushed controller that can limit RPM's to a set level and actually do this well. Now you are down to driver and setup. If you go down to 4 or 5 cell you will just see the guys who are willing to abuse their equipment and replace it win the races.
11-09-2006, 06:09 AM
#63
Tech Fanatic
These problems come up because our hobby is very unique. We can buy all the stuff, go out and race against the worlds best at any given race. Can you do that in any other racing?? F1, Nascar ..... NO!!
I never think limiting the technology is a good idea. (ex. batteries, motors etc) This hobby is way better because technology keeps moving it forward. Brushless, Lipo...etc all make the hobby more enjoyable for the masses. We keep making more mah in batteries but never extend the race time. Instead we make them faster. How about an 8min touring race?? People would have to slow down the cars to make the end of the race making the racing easier for newbies, while also giving everyone more runtime at an event. My wife laughs everytime I leave for a big race for 3 days and I tell her I ran 3. 5min qualifiers and a 5 min main. Qualifing and racing are 2/ 8-10 hours days and you run for 20 minutes total. (I see why she thinks its crazy)
If we limit the technology we stunt the hobby. Technology wins!! (isn't that your companies moto Hodge!!) Better technology moves the hobby ahead and helps lower the price of products in the long run!
I never think limiting the technology is a good idea. (ex. batteries, motors etc) This hobby is way better because technology keeps moving it forward. Brushless, Lipo...etc all make the hobby more enjoyable for the masses. We keep making more mah in batteries but never extend the race time. Instead we make them faster. How about an 8min touring race?? People would have to slow down the cars to make the end of the race making the racing easier for newbies, while also giving everyone more runtime at an event. My wife laughs everytime I leave for a big race for 3 days and I tell her I ran 3. 5min qualifiers and a 5 min main. Qualifing and racing are 2/ 8-10 hours days and you run for 20 minutes total. (I see why she thinks its crazy)
If we limit the technology we stunt the hobby. Technology wins!! (isn't that your companies moto Hodge!!) Better technology moves the hobby ahead and helps lower the price of products in the long run!
11-09-2006, 06:25 AM
#64
Ask the Japanese how they like blowing up 8 turns running 8 minute races. Adding time to the race doesnt make it any easier on equipment, you will always push your equipment to the limit to gain a competitive advantage. The side effect is they have now re-created the battery wars.
11-09-2006, 07:05 AM
#65
I would love to have 8 minute races in Stock or 19 turn but that would put the clubs in the spot. 8 minutes races would make the raceday longer. You should be there at 8am and leave 8pm to be able to make 3+1. The decent turnout we have on our local track (40-70 spread at least in 4 categories) would not allow longer races...
11-09-2006, 07:11 AM
#66
Suspended
Thread Starter
Gee, how in the world did we ever manage when all we had was 8 minute races in 1/12 scale. 
Nearly 48 hours since this thread was posted.....number of replies by candidates: zero.
Nearly 48 hours since this thread was posted.....number of replies by candidates: zero.
11-09-2006, 07:52 AM
#68
Fact: all real racing orgnaizations limit speeds and technology when costs and "safety" gets out of control. From NASCAR to F1, they all make adjustments to keep the playing field level and the competition fair. It doesn't always work, but they all do it.
Fact: the speeds that can be achieved on an indoor carpet track exceed the space and size of the track. Stock class cars are faster than mod cars were 15 years ago. Average voltage of batteries is up almost .25v a cell than we had 20 years ago. At .2v per cell, you essentially have returned to 7-cell voltage.
Fact: no matter what restrictions are put on racers, they will continue to progress and advance skills and technology, to be faster than they were when they weren't restricted.
It's not JUST the cost, because you can watch guys dumping $1500-$2000 to race 1/8th gas off road monster truck things. It's not JUST the speeds, because most of us like fast cars in general and we'll always want to go faster.
I don't care what happens to the battery limits and rules, as long as everything is done globally. Meaning, make it the same for EVERYONE, and no one has any room to complain about anything. 4-cell, 5-cell, camera batteries... it doesn't matter what it is.
Hell, I'll race 3-cell DustBuster motors and batteries in my car if everyone else does.
It's interesting that none of the canditate have attempted to give any input on their thoughts on this issue.
Fact: the speeds that can be achieved on an indoor carpet track exceed the space and size of the track. Stock class cars are faster than mod cars were 15 years ago. Average voltage of batteries is up almost .25v a cell than we had 20 years ago. At .2v per cell, you essentially have returned to 7-cell voltage.
Fact: no matter what restrictions are put on racers, they will continue to progress and advance skills and technology, to be faster than they were when they weren't restricted.
It's not JUST the cost, because you can watch guys dumping $1500-$2000 to race 1/8th gas off road monster truck things. It's not JUST the speeds, because most of us like fast cars in general and we'll always want to go faster.
I don't care what happens to the battery limits and rules, as long as everything is done globally. Meaning, make it the same for EVERYONE, and no one has any room to complain about anything. 4-cell, 5-cell, camera batteries... it doesn't matter what it is.
Hell, I'll race 3-cell DustBuster motors and batteries in my car if everyone else does.
It's interesting that none of the canditate have attempted to give any input on their thoughts on this issue.
11-09-2006, 08:34 AM
#70
Tech Regular
These threads always crack me up...
Let's not compare changing TC's to 4 cell with 12th scale. We changed 12th so long ago that we were running what like 1700's? Apples and oranges...
Let's look at the plusses and minuses of 4/5 cell vs. 6 cell.
4/5 cell plusses:
1) Cheaper battery packs.
2) Lighter cars that will be less prone to brekage.
3) Less power to kill the motors and tires.
4) Top stock racers may move up to 19 turn or mod.
5) Run the same packs in Sedan and 1/12th. (4 cell)
6) Noobs might be able to get around the track better.
7) Bags weigh less when flying to big races (yes it's an issue).
8) Less tire wear (for now at least).
9) More room for that huge assed brushless speedo.
10) Longer lasting diff's in mod.
11) Less cooling fans. Bet we still use one in mod...
12) With 4 cell, the matchers would only have one type of pack to worry about. Smaller boxes etc...
13) Slowing the cars down in stock will make some of the RTR cars more compeditive. Maybee a noob won't have to rush out and buy that X-Ray and all the hop ups right away.
4/5 cell negatives:
1) "It's slow"... (run mod you losers)
2) 5 cell is gay. (just my opinion) (the tabs on opposite sides comment makes sense though)
3) "Dropping cells will only widen the gap between the good guys and the new guys." (trust me...it aint the cells or equipment)(I have no budget and the factory guys still wup up on me)(drivers win races).
4) "re-created the battery wars" (The war is over, Intellect won)
5) "manufacturers will make lighter parts that will break" (that's what the weight limit is for...
6) Any of the other cry baby stuff that I missed.
Bottom line is, if you're complaining about "slowing the cars down" and there is a faster class for you to run you're complaining about something that can be fixed. Want to go fast, RUN MOD! It will be fast with 4 cells too. Probably brushless though...
Let's not compare changing TC's to 4 cell with 12th scale. We changed 12th so long ago that we were running what like 1700's? Apples and oranges...
Let's look at the plusses and minuses of 4/5 cell vs. 6 cell.
4/5 cell plusses:
1) Cheaper battery packs.
2) Lighter cars that will be less prone to brekage.
3) Less power to kill the motors and tires.
4) Top stock racers may move up to 19 turn or mod.
5) Run the same packs in Sedan and 1/12th. (4 cell)
6) Noobs might be able to get around the track better.
7) Bags weigh less when flying to big races (yes it's an issue).
8) Less tire wear (for now at least).
9) More room for that huge assed brushless speedo.
10) Longer lasting diff's in mod.
11) Less cooling fans. Bet we still use one in mod...
12) With 4 cell, the matchers would only have one type of pack to worry about. Smaller boxes etc...
13) Slowing the cars down in stock will make some of the RTR cars more compeditive. Maybee a noob won't have to rush out and buy that X-Ray and all the hop ups right away.
4/5 cell negatives:
1) "It's slow"... (run mod you losers)
2) 5 cell is gay. (just my opinion) (the tabs on opposite sides comment makes sense though)
3) "Dropping cells will only widen the gap between the good guys and the new guys." (trust me...it aint the cells or equipment)(I have no budget and the factory guys still wup up on me)(drivers win races).
4) "re-created the battery wars" (The war is over, Intellect won)
5) "manufacturers will make lighter parts that will break" (that's what the weight limit is for...
6) Any of the other cry baby stuff that I missed.
Bottom line is, if you're complaining about "slowing the cars down" and there is a faster class for you to run you're complaining about something that can be fixed. Want to go fast, RUN MOD! It will be fast with 4 cells too. Probably brushless though...
11-09-2006, 10:19 AM
#71
I'll go into more detail on this later.
BUt here's a "price as test" from XTREME RC CARS MAGAZINE
Losi 8ight $1593
HPI Pro4 $1485 (didn't have the losi review in front of me)
The TC was totalled with one battery, one set of tires.
8ight was with a quart of fuel.
Point being you can get either for the same price. And you'll need way more sets of tires for TC to run one weekend. Multiple motors, new packs every month or so.
Most buggy drivers can run on 1 set of tires for multiple weeks, and the engine should easily last an entire season.
We need to stop thinking about rules for the top 2% and what ROAR gets tricked into. Most of all the complaining matters little to the 98% of the people who race and have fun.
This is about a change in the direction of our hobby, and it should NOT be made by ROAR, or any racing organization.
BUt here's a "price as test" from XTREME RC CARS MAGAZINE
Losi 8ight $1593
HPI Pro4 $1485 (didn't have the losi review in front of me)
The TC was totalled with one battery, one set of tires.
8ight was with a quart of fuel.
Point being you can get either for the same price. And you'll need way more sets of tires for TC to run one weekend. Multiple motors, new packs every month or so.
Most buggy drivers can run on 1 set of tires for multiple weeks, and the engine should easily last an entire season.
We need to stop thinking about rules for the top 2% and what ROAR gets tricked into. Most of all the complaining matters little to the 98% of the people who race and have fun.
This is about a change in the direction of our hobby, and it should NOT be made by ROAR, or any racing organization.
11-09-2006, 10:33 AM
#72
Suspended
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by DerekB
This is about a change in the direction of our hobby, and it should NOT be made by ROAR, or any racing organization.
If 5 cell touring car becomes the direction, so be it. The rest of the hobby will move on as it has always done.
Last I checked, there's only 2 major ROAR Touring Car races per year. Throw in the infrequent regionals, and any formal rule change may go largely ignored anyhow.
Scotty, Boylan, Mr. Bill, etc can just do whatever they want, just like now.
11-09-2006, 10:35 AM
#74
Gee thanks, but ROAR isn't just Nationals, and really the problem here is that they make rules for the top and forget about the regular guy who doesn't have all these issues we exaggerate online.
11-09-2006, 10:38 AM
#75
Originally Posted by DerekB
This is about a change in the direction of our hobby, and it should NOT be made by ROAR, or any racing organization.
Who should be responsible for the change, then? We all agree, at least, that something NEEDS to change, but what, and who structures it if it is not the major sanctioning bodies of the world?
If you don't have sanctioning structure, you wind up with what we have in dirt oval racing. Every track across the country has different rules, different classes, and racing between them is not only complicated, but costly. It's fractured and damaged, and is only now staring to right the ship. And doing that has taken the organization and development of a new governing body and race organization (because ROAR abandoned dirt oval rules and class structure years ago).
Saying there is a problem, and not offering a reasonable alternative or solution doesn't help the situation. You complain about 4/5-cell changes, but offer no other solutions...
I'd like to hear what the alternatives are, other than letting the racing side of the hobby wander aimlessly down the path that it is currently on.