lipo and roar
10-28-2006, 02:39 PM
#1
lipo and roar
are lipos ever going to be roar legal? maybe 08?
10-28-2006, 06:16 PM
#2
If we go 4-cell for touring cars, LiPos won't make it. It will be interesting to see, for it has to be one or the other. Tme will tell what we end up with as far as rules. I think next weeks '07 rules vote in EFRA will set the stage for the future,
10-29-2006, 06:13 AM
#3
Honestly, does anyone except people who attend ROAR events really care? Besides the racers who come to RCtech, there's really not much information to the masses about this 4 cell proposal, or lipo for that matter. Not even my LHS knows anything, they just sell whats hot and right now Lipo's are the hot ticket. More and more lipo's are being offered everyday now, its going to be hard to tell someone at a local level lipo's are a dead horse, 4 cells the ticket, ya, right! The only people this really concerns are the ROAR members, while most club tracks loosely follow ROAR rules, they run what the masses want, so far the trend has been Lipo. It will be intersteing to see what happens, probably some sort of compromise will have to be offered, maybe 4 cell mod, with 19T, stock lipo and NiMh combined, just have to get the guys running stock & 19T to meet a weight limit to be fair, Mod should be open.
10-29-2006, 07:54 AM
#4
Originally Posted by hobbipro
Mod should be open.
10-29-2006, 08:17 AM
#5
As far as I know, there are no proposals for ROAR to go to 4 cell at this point.
Lipo is still a mystery to a lot of RACERS, simply because they race what is ROAR legal. Eventually, as more and more people use lipo on a club level, ROAR will be forced to make a decision.
I personally feel that lipo is still in the infancy stages, and we will see better products that foster it's growth among the hard core racer. Or, the technology will shift again before the current lipo catches on. That may also be a big consideration for racers who are considering adopting the new technology.
Lipo is still a mystery to a lot of RACERS, simply because they race what is ROAR legal. Eventually, as more and more people use lipo on a club level, ROAR will be forced to make a decision.
I personally feel that lipo is still in the infancy stages, and we will see better products that foster it's growth among the hard core racer. Or, the technology will shift again before the current lipo catches on. That may also be a big consideration for racers who are considering adopting the new technology.
10-29-2006, 08:27 AM
#6
There are more RACERS using lipo than you deem worthy to call RACERS, it seems.
10-29-2006, 08:51 AM
#7
You do realize that companies like Kokam who are making LiPo cells for the Orion packs are also making batteries for hybrid vehicles, right? I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing. The only thing in its "infancy" about LiPo is the attitude and knowledge of people that aren't using it.
There is exactly NO reason to prefer the idiocy of what's required with NiMH to keep them working well (and only for a very short period of time) compared to the pure joy of using LiPo. It's all politics and fear of change and nothing else.
There is exactly NO reason to prefer the idiocy of what's required with NiMH to keep them working well (and only for a very short period of time) compared to the pure joy of using LiPo. It's all politics and fear of change and nothing else.
10-29-2006, 09:17 AM
#9
lipos are definately the future of battery tech (frankly they are the present) just not for ROAR or any rc sanctioning body right now.. we should have two touring classes.. MOD should be "open" and stock should be "spec"... the hobby is getting way too diluted and expensive...
10-29-2006, 09:39 AM
#10
Originally Posted by syndr0me
There is exactly NO reason to prefer the idiocy of what's required with NiMH to keep them working well (and only for a very short period of time) compared to the pure joy of using LiPo. It's all politics and fear of change and nothing else.
10-29-2006, 09:42 AM
#11
Frankly,
ROAR and all other sanctioning bodies are well aware of the advantages of Lipo's and they are well into planning. The problem here is not just if ( for that matter when) we go to Lipo typoe technology , it is how to do it.
Take for example 12th scale or pretty much all of oval racing, we cannot put a 2 cell Lipo in a 12th scale car, it would be ballistic. That would not be a prudent descsion to make as a sanctioning body. If we put a single cell in there, the voltage would be too low....
Then we have the impending 4 cell TC. We have a similar situation......
Sanctioning bodies are at crossroads in technology..Between Lipo, Brushless.... Voltage....
The best way for everyone to push this stuff forward is to race it at the local level... When there are a big enough group of racers running this stuff, then the sanctioning bodies HAVE TO LISTEN and make changes.
A racer on our state series, runs Lipo in Practice, then straps in a NIMH battery to race with, good example of making the best of the situation.
It will happen eventually......
ROAR and all other sanctioning bodies are well aware of the advantages of Lipo's and they are well into planning. The problem here is not just if ( for that matter when) we go to Lipo typoe technology , it is how to do it.
Take for example 12th scale or pretty much all of oval racing, we cannot put a 2 cell Lipo in a 12th scale car, it would be ballistic. That would not be a prudent descsion to make as a sanctioning body. If we put a single cell in there, the voltage would be too low....
Then we have the impending 4 cell TC. We have a similar situation......
Sanctioning bodies are at crossroads in technology..Between Lipo, Brushless.... Voltage....
The best way for everyone to push this stuff forward is to race it at the local level... When there are a big enough group of racers running this stuff, then the sanctioning bodies HAVE TO LISTEN and make changes.
A racer on our state series, runs Lipo in Practice, then straps in a NIMH battery to race with, good example of making the best of the situation.
It will happen eventually......
Last edited by TimPotter; 10-29-2006 at 10:28 AM.
10-29-2006, 09:44 AM
#12
Yea, the gear involved for NiMH maintenance is unfortunate. I do all my club racing with two LiPo packs, a $70 charger the size of a deck of cards, and a $50 power supply the size of hot dog. I even spent an extra $25 on a LipoSack, just to be certain, though I'm confident the cells in the packs I use (Orion) aren't as volatile as some others out there.
There's a million threads about why LiPo is better though. If this one follows the trend, someone will post a scary video with a LiPo fire, everyone will call them stupid, and then the thread will fade into history like all the others.
If you've got the means to use these batteries, give them a shot. It's honestly and truly a great joy.
There's a million threads about why LiPo is better though. If this one follows the trend, someone will post a scary video with a LiPo fire, everyone will call them stupid, and then the thread will fade into history like all the others.
If you've got the means to use these batteries, give them a shot. It's honestly and truly a great joy.
10-29-2006, 10:12 AM
#13
When i go to the track, there are not many guys who own lipo. i know the guy who owns the track sells them, and he and his sons run them in practice. They seem to like them. To be honest, I haven't heard of anyone asking to run them yet, at this particular track. I am sure that they would be allowed to run, considering the guy running the track sells them (his own brand, OEM'd).
Also, I guarantee that once lipo is raced on a national level, it will be just as involved as NIMH. I remember when everybody was talking about how great NiMH was over NiCad, and there would be no memory, etc, etc. Well, that is obviously not true. Yes, the cells perform much better. They don't seem to be as robust as NiCad. You could rematch 2000s, and they lasted quite a while. If you deadshorted, maintenance was retarded simple. It was hard to get good stuff though, and the date codes tended to get worse, not better.
There are two sides to everything. There will be downsides to Lipos, besides safety issues etc. I am just tired of the "we're going to the promised land" line I hear so much. We ARE venturing into the unknown, both in terms of battery care, battery life, and cost. That is what concerns me. I say we do not know much about the batteries right now.
Rob king
Also, I guarantee that once lipo is raced on a national level, it will be just as involved as NIMH. I remember when everybody was talking about how great NiMH was over NiCad, and there would be no memory, etc, etc. Well, that is obviously not true. Yes, the cells perform much better. They don't seem to be as robust as NiCad. You could rematch 2000s, and they lasted quite a while. If you deadshorted, maintenance was retarded simple. It was hard to get good stuff though, and the date codes tended to get worse, not better.
There are two sides to everything. There will be downsides to Lipos, besides safety issues etc. I am just tired of the "we're going to the promised land" line I hear so much. We ARE venturing into the unknown, both in terms of battery care, battery life, and cost. That is what concerns me. I say we do not know much about the batteries right now.
Rob king
10-29-2006, 10:21 AM
#14
Originally Posted by syndr0me
You do realize that companies like Kokam who are making LiPo cells for the Orion packs are also making batteries for hybrid vehicles, right? I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing. The only thing in its "infancy" about LiPo is the attitude and knowledge of people that aren't using it.
There is exactly NO reason to prefer the idiocy of what's required with NiMH to keep them working well (and only for a very short period of time) compared to the pure joy of using LiPo. It's all politics and fear of change and nothing else.
There is exactly NO reason to prefer the idiocy of what's required with NiMH to keep them working well (and only for a very short period of time) compared to the pure joy of using LiPo. It's all politics and fear of change and nothing else.
I am not on either side of this debate but I sure don't want things blowing up. Would a change to lipo put all the matchers out of business?
10-29-2006, 10:56 AM
#15
Tech Fanatic
I've been racing RC for 30 years, and I have heard this 'promised land' line about electronic speedos, foam tyres, 1400s, 1700, SCEs, SCRs, MOSFETS, carbon fibre, 4WD, Off-Road, TC, brushless, etc, etc.....
I am in the 'safety issues' camp on this - let's be sure, not sued. The two biggest distributors in the UK don't sell LiPo because of all the incidents in the flight market. I can't believe that your big distributors are unaware of the issues either. Put simply, NiMh uses inert materials, and LiPo uses active materials.
Every item that ever came into RC cars has never levelled the playing field, or proved to be easy to use. LiPos are no exception, as their technology is already being made out of date by LiMn and other materials. Additionally, there are strong rumours of a 5v cell. This is the beginning, not the end.
I agree with Tim Potter - it will be the early adopters who push the barriers, and they don't need any sanctioning body approval to use the kit. Just bear in mind that if you continuously sneer at people who don't see the 'promised land', they'll go elsewhere. Nitro is a big attraction in the UK - no coincidence that there are almost no new electric cars in the pipeline from the big manufacturers (except 18th scale) and Losi have gone into 8th Rallycross IC.
I am in the 'safety issues' camp on this - let's be sure, not sued. The two biggest distributors in the UK don't sell LiPo because of all the incidents in the flight market. I can't believe that your big distributors are unaware of the issues either. Put simply, NiMh uses inert materials, and LiPo uses active materials.
Every item that ever came into RC cars has never levelled the playing field, or proved to be easy to use. LiPos are no exception, as their technology is already being made out of date by LiMn and other materials. Additionally, there are strong rumours of a 5v cell. This is the beginning, not the end.
I agree with Tim Potter - it will be the early adopters who push the barriers, and they don't need any sanctioning body approval to use the kit. Just bear in mind that if you continuously sneer at people who don't see the 'promised land', they'll go elsewhere. Nitro is a big attraction in the UK - no coincidence that there are almost no new electric cars in the pipeline from the big manufacturers (except 18th scale) and Losi have gone into 8th Rallycross IC.