The Official 4300 Brushless/LiPo/Foam Touring Thread
11-01-2006, 05:08 PM
#76
Tony, Is that because the Novak is sensored and the Mamba isnt? Or is it something else?
11-01-2006, 05:36 PM
#77
If your refering to the deadband, it is because it is programmed that way in the software. This will hopefully get taken care of when the new software is released as well as being able to run the Novak motors.
Later,
Later,
Last edited by CRASH; 11-01-2006 at 05:58 PM.
11-01-2006, 07:19 PM
#78
Tech Apprentice
Crash, Syndrome, FreqETag,
TQ for sharing, what you think about - (Brusless Technology)
rotor overall is smaller, allowing for a larger air gap in the can.
- Give lesser magnetic field generated by coils, so should have higher RPM.
Since the magnets are stronger, the I believe that helps with cooling and possibly with torque
- With the stronger magnets, will produce more torque. since rotor/magnet is smaller (don't know distance yet =magnetic calculations) maybe magnet field is back to original strength. but with more mag strength of current sintered, few % power should increase
- overall powerband will change. should increase power output
-but smaller motor core would help in higher output though..
you might get higher rpm...but dont think you get more torque
-But smaller core has lesser weight, lesser momentum for high speed..Reduce rotation mass which will increase torque and the magnectic field generate from a smaller motor core and ..reduce rotation mass which will increase torque...true statement from common sense...
But with stronger magnets should be no problems
- since air gap is more noticeable in BL, would a redesigned rotor of directional fan shape works in accordance with the anticlock rotation to gain faster spinoff + cooling effects, or maybe trick-it-out a little timing
- Change the BL bearings should improve few %. less drag.
Why does BL ESC have 3wires going to the BL motor? If go to Brush Motor how many wire?
TQ for sharing, what you think about - (Brusless Technology)
rotor overall is smaller, allowing for a larger air gap in the can.
- Give lesser magnetic field generated by coils, so should have higher RPM.
Since the magnets are stronger, the I believe that helps with cooling and possibly with torque
- With the stronger magnets, will produce more torque. since rotor/magnet is smaller (don't know distance yet =magnetic calculations) maybe magnet field is back to original strength. but with more mag strength of current sintered, few % power should increase
- overall powerband will change. should increase power output
-but smaller motor core would help in higher output though..
you might get higher rpm...but dont think you get more torque
-But smaller core has lesser weight, lesser momentum for high speed..Reduce rotation mass which will increase torque and the magnectic field generate from a smaller motor core and ..reduce rotation mass which will increase torque...true statement from common sense...
But with stronger magnets should be no problems
- since air gap is more noticeable in BL, would a redesigned rotor of directional fan shape works in accordance with the anticlock rotation to gain faster spinoff + cooling effects, or maybe trick-it-out a little timing
- Change the BL bearings should improve few %. less drag.
Why does BL ESC have 3wires going to the BL motor? If go to Brush Motor how many wire?
11-01-2006, 09:03 PM
#82
Fastlane the stomping grounds for testing. WE have really conversed. Ya know I tried to cheat, what a riot the only thing I could do to cheat was put my car on a diet. With lipos, you you really loose the weight. Proud to race there. I have conidered quiting racing in the past although it was just out of frustration. I'm pretty competitive and I would like a fair chance. I really dont feal i'm being out bought I'm getting out stiudied out practiced out skilled on every level when I ran stock brush. As strickly a club racer, I dont do this hobby but once aweek. I do it for the comrodery and to just turn off the phone so to speak. But i love to race, and I race to win. where friends in the pits. But when the anouncer says 1 min. We'll beat each other to death for the best spot on the stand> to be honest thats the only edge we dont like to comprimise. Or should I say share.And I'll say this I only won when the pros had a bad day in brush. Sense we have been doing 4300 we have all won at least once. now thats a testimonial to some pretty good racing. The 4300 could very possibibly saved club racing. At every level from the over study to the under study i hope we keep the excitment alive it will insure aplace to race. I heard mr black that you really are the man. And I am glad you hear us hopfully you hear this.
Last edited by UN4RACING; 11-01-2006 at 10:44 PM.
11-02-2006, 03:38 AM
#83
As for running the Novak GTB in brushed mode I believe that all three of the wires used for brushless motor go to the negative and you have to split the red wire for the positive on the battery and the motor.
Now for the Mamba you do not have to do this. Take the red wire for the brushless motor put it on the positive and then take the black wire from the brushless motor and put on the negative and leave the white wire form the brushless motor disconnected.
Hope this helps highflyer,
Now for the Mamba you do not have to do this. Take the red wire for the brushless motor put it on the positive and then take the black wire from the brushless motor and put on the negative and leave the white wire form the brushless motor disconnected.
Hope this helps highflyer,
11-02-2006, 03:40 AM
#84
syndr0me I will see if I can get Pat to write up some info on the difference between sensorless and sensored brushless and some more indepth info on what really makes these things sing.
Later,
Later,
11-02-2006, 05:13 AM
#85
Dang crash they make you get up early. You guys are getting all the worms. Dont you just love a fully repeaked brain in the morning. Now that we have a crowd heres a Q and A. How do I find the Peak performance of my 4300? I'll have to make this a short short version. It took alot of practice. The bad news is youll need more than 1 motor. I have been fortunate enough to aquire 4 of them at a sponsored price. This is what I did. SS rotor only. Take your old one the magnets will be weak after a couple of really hard runs that is if your tring to stay out front. Run it start low in gear ratio, keep a close eye on the temp. next round 1 tooth higher, hopfully it will thermal in the last qualifier. Now you have found the peak performance of that magnet. Throw in a brand new SS rotor and run the main. You wont be disapointed. This may vary due to my set up and programing of my radio. Now i know this is a 1 motor test but when your done throwing motor 1 against the wall and stomping on it youll get my drift. This one of a variaty of test from the stomping grounds. there are tricks to every thing I guess but this one worked well for me. The sintered rotor is alot less work and not much slower but I can see thats another test yet to finish after tues. night i should be able to tell you how long the SS will last at peak performance. Well this ought to get the day started with a topic. Maybe I'll tell you about some speedo test to morrow or cooling tricks, theres an invitation for inovation the next breed will have vents. There is no end to this bottomless pit.Its a little early but my Quote of the day is. Its not how fast you go its how quick you get there.
Last edited by UN4RACING; 11-02-2006 at 06:34 AM.
11-02-2006, 04:19 PM
#88
As promised here I am. Ask away, I'll try to check your thread at least every couple days in the afternoon.
We're glad to help anyway we can. One thing we'd like folks to consider when questioning our actions is this. We're not perfect, we learn more everyday, and new technology becomes available all the time.
A few years ago, Sintered technology was not even feasable, but now, with many more manufactures having access to the process, prices have dropped dramatically making this stuff much easier for us to use.
Additionly, sintered rotors really are the Only way to go. I'd say I haven't talked to a racer yet that woulnd't agree they are faster. (until today... ) I can see them being close to equal when a Bonded rotor is "new", but after it gets hot once or twice, the sintered rotor is much better. Effeciency seems to be king with these motors.
I'm usually here all week, emails are very easy for us to answer if you can't get through on the tech line. The tech line gets busy, lots of folks out there seem to misplace their manuals....
Also, I work with our team drivers on race stuff, and event support, so feel free to stop by and say hi if you attend an event we do. Next up for us is Cleveland Indoor Champs.
My direct email is [email protected] or simply call and ask for Charlie in Tech Support. 949-833-8873.
Thanks Guys,
Charlie
We're glad to help anyway we can. One thing we'd like folks to consider when questioning our actions is this. We're not perfect, we learn more everyday, and new technology becomes available all the time.
A few years ago, Sintered technology was not even feasable, but now, with many more manufactures having access to the process, prices have dropped dramatically making this stuff much easier for us to use.
Additionly, sintered rotors really are the Only way to go. I'd say I haven't talked to a racer yet that woulnd't agree they are faster. (until today... ) I can see them being close to equal when a Bonded rotor is "new", but after it gets hot once or twice, the sintered rotor is much better. Effeciency seems to be king with these motors.
I'm usually here all week, emails are very easy for us to answer if you can't get through on the tech line. The tech line gets busy, lots of folks out there seem to misplace their manuals....
Also, I work with our team drivers on race stuff, and event support, so feel free to stop by and say hi if you attend an event we do. Next up for us is Cleveland Indoor Champs.
My direct email is [email protected] or simply call and ask for Charlie in Tech Support. 949-833-8873.
Thanks Guys,
Charlie
11-02-2006, 06:38 PM
#89
Questions:
Sensored motors have more torque then sensorless at startup?
Sensored motors have set timing at one rpm, due to the sensors?
Sensorless motors timing is cosntantly adjusted by the speedo for optimum performance and efficency?
The sintered rotor basically is a much stronger magnet then a bonded magnet? Creating more efficiency and cooler tempatures?
Torque is generated by current and rpm is generated by voltage?
Thanks,
Sensored motors have more torque then sensorless at startup?
Sensored motors have set timing at one rpm, due to the sensors?
Sensorless motors timing is cosntantly adjusted by the speedo for optimum performance and efficency?
The sintered rotor basically is a much stronger magnet then a bonded magnet? Creating more efficiency and cooler tempatures?
Torque is generated by current and rpm is generated by voltage?
Thanks,
11-02-2006, 07:47 PM
#90
Glad to have you here Charlie.
It's nice to know the sintered setup is the way to go. I think its all about figuring out where to gear. It acts so much like a brushed motor that you can get "past" the sweet spot resulting in less torque or pull out of the corners.
Currently, I'm at 33mm with 57mm tires and it seems a tiny bit sluggish off the corners. We'll see, I'm gonna go down a half a tooth and check the lap times.
By the way, we started this thread a few days ago and we have over 1000 views! Awesome!
It's nice to know the sintered setup is the way to go. I think its all about figuring out where to gear. It acts so much like a brushed motor that you can get "past" the sweet spot resulting in less torque or pull out of the corners.
Currently, I'm at 33mm with 57mm tires and it seems a tiny bit sluggish off the corners. We'll see, I'm gonna go down a half a tooth and check the lap times.
By the way, we started this thread a few days ago and we have over 1000 views! Awesome!