Should Touring Car heats be more then 5 minutes?
10-08-2006, 08:41 PM
#31
There are a lot of things to factor in before longer run times are put in. As EA(Eric) stated earlier, look at what could of happened at IIC if a extra minute was given to all. It would take two more hours per raceday. The venues would have to be rented for a longer period of time.
I do believe that longer run times on the track make people into better drivers. When I was learning to fly planes before buddy cords were around. The plane was in air for about 10-12 minutes. You flew for about 1-2 minutes per flight because the instructor was adjusting/flying/screwing around for the rest of the time it was in the air. This went on twice a day for 3 months. I got tired of waiting for help and I went up by myself and logged more (learned) airtime in an hour than I had the previous 3 months.
I think club races and local tracks could and should accomodate/cater to their racers. I would gladly pay a bit more race fees to have another round/more minutes on the track. This also tells me if a can concentrate for a longer race and if my car is properly adjusted/set-up. Just my opinion.
I do believe that longer run times on the track make people into better drivers. When I was learning to fly planes before buddy cords were around. The plane was in air for about 10-12 minutes. You flew for about 1-2 minutes per flight because the instructor was adjusting/flying/screwing around for the rest of the time it was in the air. This went on twice a day for 3 months. I got tired of waiting for help and I went up by myself and logged more (learned) airtime in an hour than I had the previous 3 months.
I think club races and local tracks could and should accomodate/cater to their racers. I would gladly pay a bit more race fees to have another round/more minutes on the track. This also tells me if a can concentrate for a longer race and if my car is properly adjusted/set-up. Just my opinion.
10-08-2006, 08:43 PM
#32
Originally Posted by TimPotter
We are at the end of our first season running 6 minute stock,and it has been a hit. It adds an averge of 5 minutes to a round... and the racers love it.
10-08-2006, 09:28 PM
#33
My opinion is if you want to do it, do it on the club level and leave the big events go. IIC was long enough this year w/o havin to add to it with this whole mess. I already know that they are planning to limit entries next year anyhow, but I don't think upping the race time is gonna be a good idea to do. I do believe it may bring more people in at the club level but just make your big long races even longer.
10-08-2006, 09:40 PM
#34
just make all classes 6 minutes . determined by racer turn out . 5 minute Qualifying . and 6 minute mains sound like a good idea .... for pro stock ,19t, ,, Mod 5 minutes . determined by the racers in that class ,if they want to run 6 min. sportman stock 5 minutes as well as novice class ....
All Big events . continue to run 5 minutes . dont fix it if it ain't broke !!!
should be implemented by club tracks !!!!
just my 2 cents !!!
All Big events . continue to run 5 minutes . dont fix it if it ain't broke !!!
should be implemented by club tracks !!!!
just my 2 cents !!!
10-09-2006, 04:40 AM
#35
longer races for sure...
at one of the clubs I race at there are too many classes (sometimes over ten), frequently with only 3-4 cars in each race, which then means we only get two 4 min heats and one 5 min final. which means a ton of effort for only 13 min of track time.
I would prefer to see some longer races, with less classes, and each race being "fuller" ie not less than 6 cars. racing two classes at once (eg novice + mini, brushed stock + brushless stock, 2WD and F1, 19t + mod) would mean that we could get more track time, either by running longer races or more races or at least a longer final, and still keep to about an hour or so between each race.
hmmmm, food for thought...
at one of the clubs I race at there are too many classes (sometimes over ten), frequently with only 3-4 cars in each race, which then means we only get two 4 min heats and one 5 min final. which means a ton of effort for only 13 min of track time.
I would prefer to see some longer races, with less classes, and each race being "fuller" ie not less than 6 cars. racing two classes at once (eg novice + mini, brushed stock + brushless stock, 2WD and F1, 19t + mod) would mean that we could get more track time, either by running longer races or more races or at least a longer final, and still keep to about an hour or so between each race.
hmmmm, food for thought...
10-09-2006, 05:40 AM
#36
The big problem for us to add more in a heat.... The drivers stands are not big enough. 1 car is not that big of deal on the track, but 1 more fat guy on the stand is.... Of the 7 tracks on our series,2 or 3 can support 11 on the drivers stand ( without bitching)
BTW, the reason longer Electric TC racing keep on coming up as a discussion point, is becuase it is a legit topic....
BTW, the reason longer Electric TC racing keep on coming up as a discussion point, is becuase it is a legit topic....
Originally Posted by bvoltz
Does it need to be said any better.... Make special notice to "it has been a hit". Also if you go longer on the heats, you can add more cars to the heat....
10-09-2006, 06:53 AM
#37
I am for this (at least longer mains) as long as they have more cars in a race in order to keep the number of entries high and not make the overall race event time longer.
Now, the whole driver stand length thing is definitely an issue at some tracks that can't expand the drivers stand and a solution would be needed.
We kinda spoil ourselves in road course with how spread out cars get and also in expecting the slower cars to move 3 feet out of the way when passing them. I've seen video of some oval races where the leader is having to pass someone every corner. Now that is impressive and requires some good driving to pass cleanly and quickly.
I know *I* for one could definitely use practice passing folks.
-Rich
Now, the whole driver stand length thing is definitely an issue at some tracks that can't expand the drivers stand and a solution would be needed.
We kinda spoil ourselves in road course with how spread out cars get and also in expecting the slower cars to move 3 feet out of the way when passing them. I've seen video of some oval races where the leader is having to pass someone every corner. Now that is impressive and requires some good driving to pass cleanly and quickly.
I know *I* for one could definitely use practice passing folks.
-Rich
10-09-2006, 10:35 AM
#38
Tech Apprentice
I'm for more run time for my money. Don't take it so far that we have a bigger battery war than already exists, but an extra couple of minutes or three per run would be cool.
As for the big races, to keep 600 entries, you may have to limit things to one or two classes?
As for the big races, to keep 600 entries, you may have to limit things to one or two classes?
10-09-2006, 10:42 AM
#39
We've been running stock for 6 minutes for one year in the Florida series. They are voting later this month to include 19t. Running the extra minute is the least we can do with 4200 batteries and brushless stock motors coming. what they should do is make racing more real life- who in Formula 1 race three heats to determine a winner. Do they do that in Nascar? Grand Am? Scca?Want to save time get rid of the three A mains. One race one winner.Why do we need a second or even a third chance to win?
10-09-2006, 10:48 AM
#40
Tech Apprentice
I race SCCA. I get far fewer laps there than in R/C racing and at $250 entry fees.
I do like the weekend format though. We run one qualifying heat - fastest lap sets the grid for race one. Race 2 grid is set by finishing order of race 1. The feature race is set by fastest lap from any of the 3 previous runs of the weekend.
I do like the weekend format though. We run one qualifying heat - fastest lap sets the grid for race one. Race 2 grid is set by finishing order of race 1. The feature race is set by fastest lap from any of the 3 previous runs of the weekend.
10-09-2006, 12:45 PM
#41
Do you really need 3 heats? Just knock off a round of qualifying and make the other races longer. It puts more emphasis on driving.
10-09-2006, 01:55 PM
#42
I'd rather see 2 5 minute qualifers and 1 10 minute main. You still get the same 20 minutes on the track. It will also solve the mod problem of guys blowing crap up since you can't run a 7 turn motor anymore and expect to make runtime.... The day would probably be shorter also since it seems like it's the time between the heats that takes the most time....
10-09-2006, 04:52 PM
#43
longer is better, it's long overdue.
So we add a minute to an event with 600 racers, and we cut it back to 500 racers... How hard is that??? I suppose it could be argued that it makes it harder for the event to make money with less racers. Okay, so let's add $6 to the entry fee....
After you spend $1000 on flying to, and attending an event like this, I'd rather have the extra track time and a little more elbow room. And honestly, if $6 is the difference between attending and event and financial doom for a person, they should not be going anyway...
Batteries have never been cheaper, my personal cells spend more time in the discharger than they do on the track...
How many people nationally can extract 100% of the power availabe from any large capacity pack, and use it FLAWLESSLY to attain a world championship result? 30-40?
Personally, I don't know that I have ever been beaten by better batteries. I've been beaten A LOT, by better drivers.
If Joe Average club racer handed his average pack to Mike Blackstock, and Blackstock handed Joe average his best pack, would the result of a race between the 2 of them be the same? Yes it would, Blackstock would win both times. Perhaps Joe average needs to spend more money on batteries to be more competitive.
People that claim an additional minute or so on the track would create a "battery war", have no idea what they are talking about. Let's add to that, that most of us now have an additional 400mah to play with that we didn't last season (3800-4200 difference). If everybody in every heat at your local club race, RIGHT NOW, was coming up 30 seconds short on run time, and running their last 3-4 laps at half the speed of their average laps (and sometimes not finishing, due to being out of battery and the car stopped moving), then yes, it would be silly to lenghten races. However, that is just not the case.
Add to that, if you have to change the gearing on your car to make time (which likely would not be required), but for the sake of debate, let's say you did. Guess what, you're motor isn't going to get as hot... Brushes will last longer, less comm cutting, less wear. Your bodies will last longer because of an increase in driving accuaracy, tires will last longer... yadda...
Locally, we've been fooling with things and running 15 minute 1/12 scale heats, and it's a blast. Double the track time, double the value. Go ahead and divide what you paid for RC stuff, travel, food, lodging, entry fees last year, and divide it by the time you spent on the track. More track time, or let your discharger have all the fun... It's up to you...
So we add a minute to an event with 600 racers, and we cut it back to 500 racers... How hard is that??? I suppose it could be argued that it makes it harder for the event to make money with less racers. Okay, so let's add $6 to the entry fee....
After you spend $1000 on flying to, and attending an event like this, I'd rather have the extra track time and a little more elbow room. And honestly, if $6 is the difference between attending and event and financial doom for a person, they should not be going anyway...
Batteries have never been cheaper, my personal cells spend more time in the discharger than they do on the track...
How many people nationally can extract 100% of the power availabe from any large capacity pack, and use it FLAWLESSLY to attain a world championship result? 30-40?
Personally, I don't know that I have ever been beaten by better batteries. I've been beaten A LOT, by better drivers.
If Joe Average club racer handed his average pack to Mike Blackstock, and Blackstock handed Joe average his best pack, would the result of a race between the 2 of them be the same? Yes it would, Blackstock would win both times. Perhaps Joe average needs to spend more money on batteries to be more competitive.
People that claim an additional minute or so on the track would create a "battery war", have no idea what they are talking about. Let's add to that, that most of us now have an additional 400mah to play with that we didn't last season (3800-4200 difference). If everybody in every heat at your local club race, RIGHT NOW, was coming up 30 seconds short on run time, and running their last 3-4 laps at half the speed of their average laps (and sometimes not finishing, due to being out of battery and the car stopped moving), then yes, it would be silly to lenghten races. However, that is just not the case.
Add to that, if you have to change the gearing on your car to make time (which likely would not be required), but for the sake of debate, let's say you did. Guess what, you're motor isn't going to get as hot... Brushes will last longer, less comm cutting, less wear. Your bodies will last longer because of an increase in driving accuaracy, tires will last longer... yadda...
Locally, we've been fooling with things and running 15 minute 1/12 scale heats, and it's a blast. Double the track time, double the value. Go ahead and divide what you paid for RC stuff, travel, food, lodging, entry fees last year, and divide it by the time you spent on the track. More track time, or let your discharger have all the fun... It's up to you...
Last edited by Bob-Stormer; 10-09-2006 at 05:13 PM.
10-09-2006, 05:16 PM
#44
I'd rather have an extra round, meaning more chances of doing well, than another minute. Makes more sense to me 
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