Possible changes to 2007 Snowbird Nationals
10-08-2006, 05:44 PM
#46
Originally Posted by RCThunder
Thanks for all the thoughts! Just curious why some don't like b-main bump-ups.... I personally think it would be a lot of fun. 1 guy will be upset but 9 more will be excited.... plus it will be so cool to watch!
you can try it one way this year and the other way next year and see what works best for you and the racers.
10-08-2006, 08:20 PM
#47
Tech Adept
Originally Posted by kartermdb
i say have a bump up for each main, it would make for very exciting racing if someone bumps up for a few mains
Bumping up each main would be impossible for this type of race. When I ran DO we would do 6 car mains with 2 bump ups from each prior main...If someone bumped more then once it was thrash city.. motor changes... tire changes.. not to mention charging at rediculous amps to make the next show.. Now to do all this and your heat is up next? It just won't work out.
I dig the idea of the NON SORTED heats...(cough cough..lol), I love the idea of an extra heat with multiple re-sorts... But, I am 50/50 on the bump up.
I just feel bad for the BQ... starting 10th on the grid zero chance of getting trunked going into 1, Chances of it happening starting in the #1 grid spot for the B... 90%.
Due to bump ups...Steve Miller taught me that it is possible to charge one battery with 2 turbo 35's at 10 amps each.... Thanks Miller for the showing me how to celebrate the 4th of July in Feb! lol
10-09-2006, 08:44 AM
#48
Guys and Gals, Mike's idea is the best one considering all issues. Bumps ups are great for off-road nitro where the cars are tanks. The idea for electric sounds good but its not really feasible to do it for every main. While every class may have a "D" main, If there are only 3 'M' mains (or whatever is closer to the bottom of the list) then there isn't any time to charge nor manage any car damage or potential damage issues - especially on carpet. And for those of you who will say, "they don't have much of a chance anyways", you still have to be fair. If this was the Worlds or other race where entries/heats for each class was the same, it potentially could be done. (reference the F1 comparison later in this post) And probably pretty awesome to watch somebody jump a main and do fairly well in the next.
I should not have to mention frequency conflicts. - You would need somebody other than the RD checking for bump up conflicts and directing racers to change. RD is busy enough at these level of races, and if you dont do it, racers will try to drop it on the management team and either way - somebody gets hosed over.
Bump ups have worked in other arenas of racing. In off-road nitro the cars are tanks and a driver can make up for some error in setup. Its not unheard of to bump up 2 or 3 rounds on the off-road series here in florida. I personally have attempted to do the double (stock and mod) in sprints at last years open wheel champs. i dropped out of my 3rd class for the mains just so i could keep up with switching motors, batteries, and keeping up on tires. (Mike knows how it can be. He was there dodging cars that jumped off track into his pit area on the back straight.) I can't imagine doing that and then having to worry about retweaking, aligning, weigh/balancing for one or two separate cars and/or one class or two in each of the road course. I can only imagine the precision of setup it takes to be near the top level of oval carpet. maybe those guys think it wouldnt be so bad to bump up. I personally think when the majority of these racers are at THEIR biggest event of the year, that they are going to want to do this up like its F1. That is why it would only be the B main, and the winner has all night to rebuild the whole car if they want.
I also think that there should be something extra/special if somebody who bumps up from the B manages to win. I imagine the list of those people would remain very short. It similar to being an astronaut. 5 billion people in the world, maybe 500 people in the world trained for space, half that ever been in space, even less than half that been on another satellite (space station, moon, etc) in the sky.
Mike, the idea sounds good to me. I just ask that you move the 2 road rounds to wednesday or call up barberville and have them move the world of outlaw sprints to another night.
In response on how to or how many to bump up..
The number of bumped up cars only determines how chaotic the lower race will be. On either extreme you have a run away victory or a hackfest. the amount of cars that bump up change how worse either could be. I say worse because everyone wants a close clean race.
I should not have to mention frequency conflicts. - You would need somebody other than the RD checking for bump up conflicts and directing racers to change. RD is busy enough at these level of races, and if you dont do it, racers will try to drop it on the management team and either way - somebody gets hosed over.
Bump ups have worked in other arenas of racing. In off-road nitro the cars are tanks and a driver can make up for some error in setup. Its not unheard of to bump up 2 or 3 rounds on the off-road series here in florida. I personally have attempted to do the double (stock and mod) in sprints at last years open wheel champs. i dropped out of my 3rd class for the mains just so i could keep up with switching motors, batteries, and keeping up on tires. (Mike knows how it can be. He was there dodging cars that jumped off track into his pit area on the back straight.) I can't imagine doing that and then having to worry about retweaking, aligning, weigh/balancing for one or two separate cars and/or one class or two in each of the road course. I can only imagine the precision of setup it takes to be near the top level of oval carpet. maybe those guys think it wouldnt be so bad to bump up. I personally think when the majority of these racers are at THEIR biggest event of the year, that they are going to want to do this up like its F1. That is why it would only be the B main, and the winner has all night to rebuild the whole car if they want.
I also think that there should be something extra/special if somebody who bumps up from the B manages to win. I imagine the list of those people would remain very short. It similar to being an astronaut. 5 billion people in the world, maybe 500 people in the world trained for space, half that ever been in space, even less than half that been on another satellite (space station, moon, etc) in the sky.
Mike, the idea sounds good to me. I just ask that you move the 2 road rounds to wednesday or call up barberville and have them move the world of outlaw sprints to another night.
In response on how to or how many to bump up..
The number of bumped up cars only determines how chaotic the lower race will be. On either extreme you have a run away victory or a hackfest. the amount of cars that bump up change how worse either could be. I say worse because everyone wants a close clean race.
10-09-2006, 12:09 PM
#49
With four rounds of qualifying there is no need for bump ups from the b. Every year I get savaged in the b and the fact that bumping one up is just going to make it worse.
As for stacking some qual heats, well it works in cleveland. I think they put at least the first 4 then its mixed after that. I like that idea because you always get stuck with one tool breaking you every time and after reshuffles your still stuck with them! You can be a fast guy in those heats and prevail but you can also be a fast guy and get killed there.
I like the bumping up in gas races only because there are so many more factors there (like flaming out, running out of fuel etc).
I see everyone else's points and respect them.
To me the a main is a goal to set for yourself at each race. Every year some wonder "What if I got one more chance to qualify?".
I say run 4 quals no bump ups. Everyone has more track time, more sleep, more fun, and can actually get out and do something.
As for stacking some qual heats, well it works in cleveland. I think they put at least the first 4 then its mixed after that. I like that idea because you always get stuck with one tool breaking you every time and after reshuffles your still stuck with them! You can be a fast guy in those heats and prevail but you can also be a fast guy and get killed there.
I like the bumping up in gas races only because there are so many more factors there (like flaming out, running out of fuel etc).
I see everyone else's points and respect them.
To me the a main is a goal to set for yourself at each race. Every year some wonder "What if I got one more chance to qualify?".
I say run 4 quals no bump ups. Everyone has more track time, more sleep, more fun, and can actually get out and do something.
10-09-2006, 12:18 PM
#50
YYYYEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH. four rounds of Qualifying.
I am all about it. what a way to make it more of a race than luck.
and seeing how I BQed at snowbirds before (yes I wore the mickey ears hat)
I am all about bump ups. (unless I qualify 10th, forget it!)
either way it will be a fun race. I like the random sort and 2 reshuffles
should be a good time.
Mo Denton
I am all about it. what a way to make it more of a race than luck.
and seeing how I BQed at snowbirds before (yes I wore the mickey ears hat)
I am all about bump ups. (unless I qualify 10th, forget it!)
either way it will be a fun race. I like the random sort and 2 reshuffles
should be a good time.
Mo Denton
10-09-2006, 01:16 PM
#51
I say IF you are going to do a bump up, then keep the 10 cars and bump one...
At the these big races its hard enough to make the show, BUT IF YOU do qualify in the top 10 of your class, you DESERVE to run the A, and not get locked out because someone that was 18th and had NO SHOT at the main with the 4 chances he already got, just HAS to make the show and is willing to do anythign to make it...
Plus as stated before this NOT ONLY effects the 10th place qualifier in the A, but it effects the 10th place qualifier in EVERY MAIN ALL THE WAY DOWN!
So Mike you say you will have one unhappy person and 9 happy ones, maybe not!!! Last year just in TC there were only 6 Amains and 39 lower mains.
So that would be 54 happy guys and 351 unhappy guys if you go by your Motto. LOL
I say you are adding one round of quals. IF YOU CAN'T OR DON't put in an "A MAIN" run in the 4 chances you have....then its the B Main for you!
At the these big races its hard enough to make the show, BUT IF YOU do qualify in the top 10 of your class, you DESERVE to run the A, and not get locked out because someone that was 18th and had NO SHOT at the main with the 4 chances he already got, just HAS to make the show and is willing to do anythign to make it...
Plus as stated before this NOT ONLY effects the 10th place qualifier in the A, but it effects the 10th place qualifier in EVERY MAIN ALL THE WAY DOWN!
So Mike you say you will have one unhappy person and 9 happy ones, maybe not!!! Last year just in TC there were only 6 Amains and 39 lower mains.
So that would be 54 happy guys and 351 unhappy guys if you go by your Motto. LOL
I say you are adding one round of quals. IF YOU CAN'T OR DON't put in an "A MAIN" run in the 4 chances you have....then its the B Main for you!
10-09-2006, 01:38 PM
#53
From my past trips to the birds I would say the people that made the B are more then good enough to make the A.
4 heats and a main, shorter race days, not having to be up all night. Those would all be nice. But the real problem with the race is the hotel. Thats what needs to be fixed.
4 heats and a main, shorter race days, not having to be up all night. Those would all be nice. But the real problem with the race is the hotel. Thats what needs to be fixed.
10-09-2006, 01:42 PM
#54
Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace
I agree with you Ant but I dont think that the 18th qualifier at the birds had NOOO chance of making the show.
10-09-2006, 01:49 PM
#55
I think the bump ups would be a great addition. I have been to several races that have went to this system and it has worked very well. This gives drivers that had bad luck in qualifying one last chance. I would say to keep the top 10 and then add the 11th from the B. Anyone that has been to Cleveland, Snowbirds, or Vegas all know that single mains are pretty rough. If you start in the back of the main you dont really have the best chance to win, but a top five is possible. Thats allot better than being in the B.
10-09-2006, 01:50 PM
#56
Tech Rookie
mrjones
david let me try to clear the air about the hotel and then we can go on to deal with the issue mike has put out here. i drive is loaded with 5 star hotel of which u can stay at any one u choose. but find one that will host a bunch of rowdy racers that r truing tires in the shower putting sponsor decals in the elevators and all down the halls is a different deal. this hote tolerates a lot. would u want us in ur house thanks mrjones
10-09-2006, 02:15 PM
#57
Thats fine, but for $89 a night I expect a little more. Like maybe the fridge to be in the room and not missing. A TV that isnt blown up. A door that doesnt pop open when somebody just leans on it. And how many people get sick every year cause of what seems like something in the air in the rooms. Maybe the new owners will take care of some stuff. I sure hope so.
10-09-2006, 02:18 PM
#58
And before somebody says "well just don't come back", I love this race. I'd go every year if I could afford it. Its a blast and Mike puts on a hell of a show. I can't fault him or the people who help out. But I know I'm not alone here. A lot of people think it.
10-09-2006, 02:23 PM
#59
Tech Master
iTrader: (40)
the hotel is lacking, definately... I thought new owners would change things last year, didnt seem to change anything... I am pretty well behaved, but at that place, I didnt care if something happened to the elevators, chairs, anything, the place didnt care about us besides getting that money... they charged my twice for my stay even! How did the hotel for the IIC hold up? did it have all these problems they have in Florida? I like the race, but the hotel makes me not wanna come back. Is there possibly a location not in tourist city right there that may be a little cheaper, but overall a nicer facility?
10-09-2006, 03:09 PM
#60
Tech Fanatic
Originally Posted by RCThunder
I have been having ill feelings the last few years stacking heats based on previous years at the birds. I hear from new guys coming each year that it isn't fair. And I do agree. If we do 4 heats I want to make it real racing again and random the rounds. We would run 1st two rounds... do a resort run the 3rd round... then do another resort before 4th round. In a way, this is racing, and facing all the random variables is part of it. This might focus more on driving in the heats.... and even more fair for all..
