Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.
07-17-2007, 03:32 AM
#1621
Hey Guys,
I finally got a brushless system for my RC10L and did some testing last race meeting.
I had my speedie mounted ontop of the Maxamps 4000mah Lipo to balance the weight of the 6000mah Lipo on the opposite side along with some ballast. I cut a hole in the body just above the fan on the speedie to get a good air flow to the speedie (similar to what John did with the Parma body).
I also played a bit with aero as I thought it would play a bigger role with the brushless generating a higher speed. The first thing I did was make a gurney flap (like on 1/8 cars) to make up for the wider front (The car was a little twitchy on the back straight last meeting). I also tried gluing a piece of lexan between the front of the body and the front bumper.
I tried the gurney flap first, it made a big difference as far as high speed stability goes although the car was still a little twitchy. I tried raising the gurney flap 3mm and the car was perfect, it was now very easy to over take the ultra slow nitro cars
.
I then tried the piece of lexan at the front of the car (I don't have a pic of it as I broke it off before i could take one). I didn't notice much of a change, the car seemed to have a little more front grip but i couldn't really tell.
The next thing I played with was gearing, I first tried a 12/90 and the car seemd to have monstrous acceleration but not a lot of top speed, I then tried a 13/90 and that was better but still it didn't have a lot of top end. I tried a 14/90 for the final and the car was a rocket, it still had that acceleration with heaps of top end. The only problem was that the car thermalled after about 8-10 minutes, I have now modified the rear pod and installed a novak sleeve heat sink on my 3.5.
I didn't get to get it timed but I was keeping up with the fastest nitro driver in our club for about 6 laps so i imagine my times have improved dramatically.
There is no 6000 in the pics as it swelled up during the final and i didn't trust it enough to leave it in the car.
Drew.
I finally got a brushless system for my RC10L and did some testing last race meeting.
I had my speedie mounted ontop of the Maxamps 4000mah Lipo to balance the weight of the 6000mah Lipo on the opposite side along with some ballast. I cut a hole in the body just above the fan on the speedie to get a good air flow to the speedie (similar to what John did with the Parma body).
I also played a bit with aero as I thought it would play a bigger role with the brushless generating a higher speed. The first thing I did was make a gurney flap (like on 1/8 cars) to make up for the wider front (The car was a little twitchy on the back straight last meeting). I also tried gluing a piece of lexan between the front of the body and the front bumper.
I tried the gurney flap first, it made a big difference as far as high speed stability goes although the car was still a little twitchy. I tried raising the gurney flap 3mm and the car was perfect, it was now very easy to over take the ultra slow nitro cars
. I then tried the piece of lexan at the front of the car (I don't have a pic of it as I broke it off before i could take one). I didn't notice much of a change, the car seemed to have a little more front grip but i couldn't really tell.
The next thing I played with was gearing, I first tried a 12/90 and the car seemd to have monstrous acceleration but not a lot of top speed, I then tried a 13/90 and that was better but still it didn't have a lot of top end. I tried a 14/90 for the final and the car was a rocket, it still had that acceleration with heaps of top end. The only problem was that the car thermalled after about 8-10 minutes, I have now modified the rear pod and installed a novak sleeve heat sink on my 3.5.
I didn't get to get it timed but I was keeping up with the fastest nitro driver in our club for about 6 laps so i imagine my times have improved dramatically.
There is no 6000 in the pics as it swelled up during the final and i didn't trust it enough to leave it in the car.
Drew.
07-17-2007, 07:03 AM
#1624
Instead of using the AE front ends, I'd like to try using a bit more updated front ends used on 1/10 oval pro kits, like the KSG CXS Gen 2 kit front end
or the agressor http://www.superiorhobbies.com/istar...ass%3DONELE%26
They are bit heavier due to the aluminum base, which I like, and they should work well for 1/10 road course pan cars...has any one tried this? If they can be used for 1/10 road course cars, are they better than the old AE front ends?
or the agressor http://www.superiorhobbies.com/istar...ass%3DONELE%26
They are bit heavier due to the aluminum base, which I like, and they should work well for 1/10 road course pan cars...has any one tried this? If they can be used for 1/10 road course cars, are they better than the old AE front ends?
07-17-2007, 07:29 AM
#1625
The next thing I played with was gearing, I first tried a 12/90 and the car seemd to have monstrous acceleration but not a lot of top speed, I then tried a 13/90 and that was better but still it didn't have a lot of top end. I tried a 14/90 for the final and the car was a rocket, it still had that acceleration with heaps of top end.
07-17-2007, 08:23 AM
#1626
Which chassis works best for road course outdoor asphalt as far as the battery layout? It seems like the the saddle pack style cars will generate better traction/roll and thus perform a bit better on asphalt...I'm looking for a car that uses the saddle pack style set up, but it seems only the Corally C10X has it, and its being discontinued, which sucks, for such a nice kit. THe Darkeside I-Force has the centerline set up, like the pantoura...what's Im think ing is using the saddle pack style chassis and mount 2 Orion 3200mah packs, one on each side- this will give about 400g of weight total, which is more than a 4800mah lipo by 140g, but it'll keep the weight to the sides for a bit better traction and roll. Plus, When one battery runs out, I just plug in the next and keep running...the Corally C10X would be ideal!!! Maybe Eric from Darkside can make a chassis for the I-Force with the saddle pack configuration?
07-17-2007, 11:07 AM
#1628
Drew-Thanks for the good report and pics. It looks like you are going for Nitro main runtimes with 10,000 mA-hours on board. You are having very good results with a very old car! Thanks for testing the Gurney strip. I plan to add one to my high speed body if we test again. (A gurney flap is a bigger device that the Nascar guys use on the roof. It opens when the car is going backwards after a spin and makes the car turn back nose first.) I think that body had two gurney flaps outlined on the rear part that you cut away. They are about 1/2 by 1.5 inch with a fold mark in the middle. I am not sure where you put them.
It sounds like you may have to gear a tad lower to prevent thermalling. Maybe adding 3 teeth to the spur to get an in between gear.
I watched the video. Nice pass in the middle. The car looks good. I noticed some hooking about 3 feet out of the corners. This is typical pan car handling. You need a very slight pause while the car straightens before you roll on the throttle. I actually think what happens here is the car lifts the front wheels too much, so normal tuning does not prevent this. Reverse tuning prevents this a little, a little more rear droop, slightly softer front shock oil or spring. The driving was excellent. Thanks.
Drew-I have a little concern that your saddle packs are not matched. It would be possible to drain the smaller one below its safe voltage while the car continues to run pretty well and the packs have enough voltage for the GTB not to shut off(LiPo cuttoff). This will hurt the smaller pack. Are they wired together in parallel or used one at a time.
YYhayhim-I noticed you posting your touring car is as fast as my pan. How did you measure the speed? I am having trouble believing your numbers any more.
John
It sounds like you may have to gear a tad lower to prevent thermalling. Maybe adding 3 teeth to the spur to get an in between gear.
I watched the video. Nice pass in the middle. The car looks good. I noticed some hooking about 3 feet out of the corners. This is typical pan car handling. You need a very slight pause while the car straightens before you roll on the throttle. I actually think what happens here is the car lifts the front wheels too much, so normal tuning does not prevent this. Reverse tuning prevents this a little, a little more rear droop, slightly softer front shock oil or spring. The driving was excellent. Thanks.
Drew-I have a little concern that your saddle packs are not matched. It would be possible to drain the smaller one below its safe voltage while the car continues to run pretty well and the packs have enough voltage for the GTB not to shut off(LiPo cuttoff). This will hurt the smaller pack. Are they wired together in parallel or used one at a time.
YYhayhim-I noticed you posting your touring car is as fast as my pan. How did you measure the speed? I am having trouble believing your numbers any more.
John
Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-17-2007 at 12:04 PM.
07-17-2007, 11:55 AM
#1631
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Has anyone tried out converting an 1/10 oval pan car kit, like the KSG pro 3, and make into a road course pan car? It seems they only need a bottom chassis, and rear pod lower plate...I'm sure there'se a few more things. Those kits are so much more up to date than what's available for road course pan cars it might be worth a shot trying to convert them.
-E
Last edited by THE DARKSIDE; 07-18-2007 at 05:42 AM.
07-17-2007, 12:02 PM
#1632
The Pantoura has no problem accepting two thin (like Max amps 4000 mA-h) packs side by side (saddle packs). Thick ones would need to have the battery strap raised up. Pictures back in the thread.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 08-06-2007 at 10:45 AM.
07-17-2007, 12:04 PM
#1633
You can also check on the last most recent Xtreme RC cars mag, and check out the test and reviews on the LOSI TYPE R w/ novak 3.5R, and the TC5 with an LRP 4.5 motor. With a 6 cells they got about 45mph. With better gearing they could get more...but, the cars were 1568g with those 6 cells...put an Orion pack in there and you will get over 50mph, easy.
Perosnally, with a 3.5R motor I have gone 53mph at our track. Its possible and my car weighed in at 1275g, so its light, and that does help get higher speeds, compared to 6 cell car that weighs in at 1475g...but still, a pan car should be faster per lap due to its much faster corner speeds and handling abilities which are quicker and sharper, even with a less motor...that's what I'm out to test and prove...I'll be strating with a 10.5BL motor and Lipo and see what it can do...if its too slow after all posible tweaks, I'll move up to an SS5800 pro motor and see what I can get from that combo.
07-17-2007, 12:44 PM
#1634
[QUOTE=THE DARKSIDE;3493711][QUOTE=yyhayyim;3491002]Has anyone tried out converting an 1/10 oval pan car kit, like the KSG pro 3, and make into a road course pan car? It seems they only need a bottom chassis, and rear pod lower plate...I'm sure there'se a few more things. Those kits are so much more up to date than what's available for road course pan cars it might be worth a shot trying to convert them.
That's actually more or less how the I-Force came to being. The kit is a compilation of our Enemy 1/10 oval chassis and 1/12 Mx2 chassis with a couple of unique parts to round out everything. From a company perspective it make sense for me because most of the parts are already stock items from other kits. It also make sense for a racer that may already be running one of these chassis such that the do not have to carry around a boatload of spare parts.
-E
That sounds very good. That's much more user friendly and sounds like a safer investment...what about and I-Force T-bar car?
That's actually more or less how the I-Force came to being. The kit is a compilation of our Enemy 1/10 oval chassis and 1/12 Mx2 chassis with a couple of unique parts to round out everything. From a company perspective it make sense for me because most of the parts are already stock items from other kits. It also make sense for a racer that may already be running one of these chassis such that the do not have to carry around a boatload of spare parts.
-E
07-17-2007, 12:54 PM
#1635
John are you not hitting higher then 50mph with your setup? I would think you'd be over 60mph with that. Heck in the 90's racing ovals with 1400mah batts and a 14T motor we were averaging 69mph over a 4min race. That was a huge track though but with today's technology it shouldn't be unthinkable to hit that on a road course provided the straight is long enough.