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Old 09-16-2009, 07:30 PM   #10606
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Originally Posted by bmcallister View Post
Would it be recommended on a tight indoor carpet track?
Mine never comes out..
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:21 PM   #10607
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1 Reason may be during the season last year there was a batch of pullies that were shipped as 42T and were actually 41T,since packing has been fixed.

Some may just be converting back. Like Cory said 41T in front will really help car drive hard on power thru the entire corner. I know I have been running the 41T on front spool for 2 years now and Schreff and Larry also have with great results while they ran there Type-R's.
spools by nature have less on power steering and the 41 tooth option really helps out. Our track now is very tight and a one way is needed but in more open layouts on our carpet track it's a great option.
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:44 PM   #10608
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spools by nature have less on power steering and the 41 tooth option really helps out. Our track now is very tight and a one way is needed but in more open layouts on our carpet track it's a great option.
isnt that the other way around? tight tracks with hair pins needs a spool and nice wide open track needs a oneway.
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:51 PM   #10609
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isnt that the other way around? tight tracks with hair pins needs a spool and nice wide open track needs a oneway.
You're generally correct for asphalt, but he is reffering to carpet which is funky and sometimes backwards.
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:20 PM   #10610
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You're generally correct for asphalt, but he is reffering to carpet which is funky and sometimes backwards.
LOL, I heard that. I spent two race day chasing set up for a "green" track. All the non losi drivers use corally, t.o.p. cars and we we going opposite in spring rates. I was going up and they were going down. Weird that this car likes more spring when there is less traction.

da John ..you may be right about the spool when we get some grip into the new layout.
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:44 PM   #10611
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LOL, I heard that. I spent two race day chasing set up for a "green" track. All the non losi drivers use corally, t.o.p. cars and we we going opposite in spring rates. I was going up and they were going down. Weird that this car likes more spring when there is less traction.

da John ..you may be right about the spool when we get some grip into the new layout.
not only a spring, the sway bars too, lots of opposite effects I monitered from this car, only thing I can think of it is cuz most of weight trasfer from center to inside of the tires instead of like most other cars weight transfer from out side of the chassis to outside edge of the tire.
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Old 09-17-2009, 07:46 AM   #10612
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Originally Posted by da_John_wee View Post
not only a spring, the sway bars too, lots of opposite effects I monitered from this car, only thing I can think of it is cuz most of weight trasfer from center to inside of the tires instead of like most other cars weight transfer from out side of the chassis to outside edge of the tire.
I think the geometry of the short arms plays the biggest role in this.
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:53 AM   #10613
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LOL, I heard that. I spent two race day chasing set up for a "green" track. All the non losi drivers use corally, t.o.p. cars and we we going opposite in spring rates. I was going up and they were going down. Weird that this car likes more spring when there is less traction.
I was mearly generalizing about asphalt vs carpet on rubber tires, and I believe this car reacts to setup changes better than other chassis, but it does so in the same way. I didn't think the car was backwards, just the surfaces we race them on are sometimes setup differently.

And talk about short arms, I had the orginal JRXS and MYGOSH those arms were short. The setup window was smaller than the cash slot at a 7eleven register in midtown Philly.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:10 AM   #10614
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I think the geometry of the short arms plays the biggest role in this.
good point, could be,.

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And talk about short arms, I had the orginal JRXS and MYGOSH those arms were short. The setup window was smaller than the cash slot at a 7eleven register in midtown Philly.
I dont know, I feel backwards many time on this car..come to think of it....I think I only felt that way on carpets...hmmmm
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:00 AM   #10615
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I don't think the car works backwards. Sometimes people will say stuff works backwards because they they do something and the car didn't do as they expected but in reality they misdiagnosed the problem from the very beginning.

For example, there are a series of corners at the local track the car will want to roll onto the front in the mid corner. People was wanting to get more steering so they was softening the front as you should but what they didn't take into account was how much car was dumping and rolling. To the point that the cars was bottoming out. As soon as the car bottomed out it in effect was running a rock hard suspension which equals no steering. I told them to go stiffen it up a bit to prevent the dumping out and instantly they gained the steering they needed.

There a usable range for all settings however differences in driving style, conditions and other factors prevents us from making blanket statements of what those ranges are. One could say that you will never use a 10lb spring on the front but then we will find a track and conditions where that would be useful and nullify the statement.
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:55 PM   #10616
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Originally Posted by da_John_wee View Post
good point, could be,.


I dont know, I feel backwards many time on this car..come to think of it....I think I only felt that way on carpets...hmmmm
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I don't think the car works backwards. Sometimes people will say stuff works backwards because they they do something and the car didn't do as they expected but in reality they misdiagnosed the problem from the very beginning.

For example, there are a series of corners at the local track the car will want to roll onto the front in the mid corner. People was wanting to get more steering so they was softening the front as you should but what they didn't take into account was how much car was dumping and rolling. To the point that the cars was bottoming out. As soon as the car bottomed out it in effect was running a rock hard suspension which equals no steering. I told them to go stiffen it up a bit to prevent the dumping out and instantly they gained the steering they needed.

There a usable range for all settings however differences in driving style, conditions and other factors prevents us from making blanket statements of what those ranges are. One could say that you will never use a 10lb spring on the front but then we will find a track and conditions where that would be useful and nullify the statement.
I'm glad you explained it that way, i'm going to try stiffer springs on my setup for the blue diamond. i did notice there was quite a bit of chassis scrub on the sides of my chassis and the car felt like it was washing out in the corner and i'm wondering if i wasn't compressing the suspension to it's limits in the fast sweeper and slapping the chassis on the track.
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Old 09-17-2009, 03:06 PM   #10617
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I don't think the car works backwards. Sometimes people will say stuff works backwards because they they do something and the car didn't do as they expected but in reality they misdiagnosed the problem from the very beginning.

For example, there are a series of corners at the local track the car will want to roll onto the front in the mid corner. People was wanting to get more steering so they was softening the front as you should but what they didn't take into account was how much car was dumping and rolling. To the point that the cars was bottoming out. As soon as the car bottomed out it in effect was running a rock hard suspension which equals no steering. I told them to go stiffen it up a bit to prevent the dumping out and instantly they gained the steering they needed.

There a usable range for all settings however differences in driving style, conditions and other factors prevents us from making blanket statements of what those ranges are. One could say that you will never use a 10lb spring on the front but then we will find a track and conditions where that would be useful and nullify the statement.
Nice post... From my exp most people don't truly understand what is wrong with their car when they are trying to fix or improve the setup. Most people I talk to only look at grip and don't have any knowledge about response and its realation to grip. I have seen some very funny setups even from top drivers that don't understand.

I have run many different cars and have helped to setup many others. I have always found that all but one car (or should I say brand) responds to setup changes in a normal fashion and if it seems like it hasn't it it more than likely you have another problem masking the change. the JRX-S type R responds perfectly and predictably to setup change.
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:02 PM   #10618
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Originally Posted by jkirkwood View Post
I don't think the car works backwards. Sometimes people will say stuff works backwards because they they do something and the car didn't do as they expected but in reality they misdiagnosed the problem from the very beginning.

For example, there are a series of corners at the local track the car will want to roll onto the front in the mid corner. People was wanting to get more steering so they was softening the front as you should but what they didn't take into account was how much car was dumping and rolling. To the point that the cars was bottoming out. As soon as the car bottomed out it in effect was running a rock hard suspension which equals no steering. I told them to go stiffen it up a bit to prevent the dumping out and instantly they gained the steering they needed.

There a usable range for all settings however differences in driving style, conditions and other factors prevents us from making blanket statements of what those ranges are. One could say that you will never use a 10lb spring on the front but then we will find a track and conditions where that would be useful and nullify the statement.
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Nice post... From my exp most people don't truly understand what is wrong with their car when they are trying to fix or improve the setup. Most people I talk to only look at grip and don't have any knowledge about response and its realation to grip. I have seen some very funny setups even from top drivers that don't understand.

I have run many different cars and have helped to setup many others. I have always found that all but one car (or should I say brand) responds to setup changes in a normal fashion and if it seems like it hasn't it it more than likely you have another problem masking the change. the JRX-S type R responds perfectly and predictably to setup change.
I like both of these statements. I am fortunate to have a fellow type R racer to share info with. I feel the changes made in this car, and I too think it responds well to those changes. There is a "traction window" like jkirkwood said. I enjoy trying different changes as much as racing the darn thing.

You guys are right about the finding the right combination of reactivity and traction. It's fun learning this stuff and it's still ongoing for me.
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:09 PM   #10619
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Originally Posted by jkirkwood View Post
I don't think the car works backwards. Sometimes people will say stuff works backwards because they they do something and the car didn't do as they expected but in reality they misdiagnosed the problem from the very beginning.

For example, there are a series of corners at the local track the car will want to roll onto the front in the mid corner. People was wanting to get more steering so they was softening the front as you should but what they didn't take into account was how much car was dumping and rolling. To the point that the cars was bottoming out. As soon as the car bottomed out it in effect was running a rock hard suspension which equals no steering. I told them to go stiffen it up a bit to prevent the dumping out and instantly they gained the steering they needed.

There a usable range for all settings however differences in driving style, conditions and other factors prevents us from making blanket statements of what those ranges are. One could say that you will never use a 10lb spring on the front but then we will find a track and conditions where that would be useful and nullify the statement.
I could have same problem on the carpet about chassis bottoming out, haynes was running 5.75 mm front ride height with highroll center front! I thought he was nut! then maybe he had reason.
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:11 PM   #10620
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This car has some interesting dynamics as far as lateral loading in corners with respect to the center of gravity. The car stays flatter to begin with than any other chassis I've ever driven. It transfers weight differently. It almost feels like when it loads to the side, instead of pushing heavily, it catches traction and balances itself really quickly. Other cars roll, stay loaded to one side, then rock back when the load goes away or they traction roll.
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