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Old 11-19-2007, 04:19 AM   #5926
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Originally Posted by Phroz View Post
Do not do this... only run LIPO's at their rated safe temps.. that kind of advice is whats giving lipo a bad name.

DEFINATELY don't do that.. I agree.. just leave them alone, they'll be fine!
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Old 11-19-2007, 04:33 AM   #5927
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http://www.duralitebatteries.com/tra...t%20Review.pdf

The first paragraph on page 4 says you can warm the trakpowers. I don't know why any other lipo would be different
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Old 11-19-2007, 09:09 AM   #5928
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Yup. LiPo warming will be standard practice as soon as people catch on. Don't let the scare-mongers steer you away from the facts. The batteries are perfectly able to tolerate 110-120 degrees with no ill-effects to cycle life or otherwise. Warm them up a little bit before you race and they'll perform better. It'll help get back some of that edge against the guys running NiMH, not to mention the other suckers running LiPo that think nobody is going to mess with them. :-) Just be smart and safe, of course. I'm using a temperature controlled Muchmore warming tray myself. Nice piece.

From Duralite, regarding Trakpower (Enerland):
Quote:
The only performance enhancing practices recommended and authorized by
TrakPower are as follows: Pre-race warming to 30-40 degrees Centigrade. Cell balancing (the
practice of ensuring that each cell in the pack is balanced to identical charge voltage).
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:11 AM   #5929
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I decided to use NiMH tonight and the car came alive. It was a LOT more drivable than it's been in the past with the LiPo tray. It sparked a lot of discussion at the track about the merits and effects of having weight down low.

I don't have the technical background to say how or why it's different, but it definitely seems to change how the car behaves. I imagine you could setup the car to take advantage of it, but I've been trying to use many of the setups shared by you guys, and then feeling frustrated when they don't seem to even be close for me. This isn't a definitive statement, though, just my personal experience. I'd love to explore the differences further, and see what others have to say, but I imagine that won't happen unless LiPo gets a bit more mainstream, and into regular use by more experienced drivers.
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Old 11-21-2007, 04:36 AM   #5930
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I have the Much More battery warmer setup. I made a tray to hold both the controller and the tray. I preheat my Orion 3200s to around 100-110f. I haven't noticed a huge difference. If anything, it's a great diversion. A little smoke and mirrors goes a long way sometimes when your "playing the game".
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Old 11-21-2007, 11:22 AM   #5931
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
I decided to use NiMH tonight and the car came alive. It was a LOT more drivable than it's been in the past with the LiPo tray. It sparked a lot of discussion at the track about the merits and effects of having weight down low.

I don't have the technical background to say how or why it's different, but it definitely seems to change how the car behaves. I imagine you could setup the car to take advantage of it, but I've been trying to use many of the setups shared by you guys, and then feeling frustrated when they don't seem to even be close for me. This isn't a definitive statement, though, just my personal experience. I'd love to explore the differences further, and see what others have to say, but I imagine that won't happen unless LiPo gets a bit more mainstream, and into regular use by more experienced drivers.
Ahhh, your getting my point..

I have the advantage of having quickly swappable batteries (I have 4mm bullets on my NIMH's) and other drivers at the track much better than myself to feel my setups (Mike Dumas and Tye). I'm not completely convinced that an optimized setup can be made for the low CG configuration (without putting some weight up top when using LiPO's). I think for that optimized setup you'd use softer springs and a lower roll center. Well, you can soften the springs, but you can't lower the roll center any further. So, we resort to other things, including: grippier tires, camber changes, bigger tires with more sidewall, etc.

Since I'm just using LiPO's for practice (for now, may change..), I'm using the weighted tray, Orion 4800's with 3.0oz of lead on top of the LiPO. This allows the LiPO to be close to my EP4200's in weight (LiPO are now actually .5 ounces heavier) and similiar weight distrubution. Note:there is very little space for lead on top of battery when using weighted tray, need to use thin lead.

Finally, this allows me to charge a couple of LiPO's the night before, stop by the track at lunch time and get a few runs in during my lunch hour. AND... I have a car that has that same feel (all the bite) as when I run my NIMH cells.

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Old 11-21-2007, 12:05 PM   #5932
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Yea, I'm with you. Your post is actually what made me decide to try NiMH this week without changing anything else. Whether or not a setup could be built around it to gain an advantage, I'm not skilled enough to say.

I'm with you on the LiPo for practice, at least. It's just too easy to have a couple of packs charged up a day or two ahead of time, and throw them in when you're ready to go. If you can get the car to handle the same with them, the only thing you'd need to adjust when going back & forth would be gearing.

http://www.maximum-velocity.com/tungstenplates.htm

They're expensive, but fairly thin and 1.7x heavier than lead. And non-toxic, but nobody in R/C seems to care about that. I've found them extremely useful in a number of situations when weighting LiPo.
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:15 PM   #5933
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did you change the gearing from lipo to minh? thought I heard someone say I might have to go down couple of teeth on my pinion cause of the volts....?
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:20 PM   #5934
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did you change the gearing from lipo to minh? thought I heard someone say I miight have to go down a couple of teeth on my pinion cause of the volts....?
Yea, gear down for NiMH and up for LiPo. The increased voltage of NiMH makes things run hotter. I think I went down... 3 or 4 teeth for rubber tire with a Novak 13.5/13mm when I put the NiMH in there. I started by going down only 1 and it came off at 175 degrees! It's down in the high 150's now.
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:35 PM   #5935
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3 or 4 eh? wow that's alot.... as of now I've been rolling it out at 40-41mm for orion 10.5... never checked the temps but would you say 150 is safe?
still new to this brushless business lol
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Old 11-21-2007, 03:05 PM   #5936
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did you change the gearing from lipo to minh? thought I heard someone say I might have to go down couple of teeth on my pinion cause of the volts....?
I've gone down 1T for NIMH from LiPO (to maintain same motor temp with 13.5 brushless). This is for rubber tire, where the gearing is very predictable and doesn't really change. I'm not quite as accurate with my foam setup yet (stupid tires keep getting smaller).

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Old 11-22-2007, 03:25 PM   #5937
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Originally Posted by 1shnot View Post
3 or 4 eh? wow that's alot.... as of now I've been rolling it out at 40-41mm for orion 10.5... never checked the temps but would you say 150 is safe?
still new to this brushless business lol
i myself still running brushed.everyone else i race with run brushless set-up with lipo battery.they have been jumping up like 6-9 teeth higher....
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Old 11-25-2007, 07:33 PM   #5938
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Hi all,

I ran LIPO's this weekend (Stock/Foam/carpet). I used the LOSI weighted plate, Orion 4800 LIPO, and 3 oz on top of the battery (to get the CG up where it needs to be).

This had the handling of my NIMH batteries.. I warmed the battery some (still waiting on a real heating tray for batteries)

I was very pleased!!! I won all three qualifiers and the main.. The big dog (Mike Dumas) was up in Cleveland racing (otherwise he surely would have whooped me!), but I did beat others that normally do better than I do (one was C main at IIC).

I've played with alot of setups now and really like the one that is posted on the LOSI web site as Dumas's setup from IIC...

Note to all about setup: I, like alot of you, hesitated to try running a setup that the "racing elite" would run at a track that has "mega traction". I did it and It actually turned out very well! Yes, IIC has much more traction than the local track, but at IIC the fast guys run little bitty tires with no sidewall.. I ran 58.5mm tires and the added sidewall seemed to be the right trade off for less traction.. I think a key in this setup is the wide hexes in front and narrow in the rear. If you have the time give it a shot.

Anyhow, thought I'd share..

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Old 11-25-2007, 08:10 PM   #5939
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Hey guys,

I got a chance to run my car for the first time this weekend running Foam/Carpet. I was absolutely thrilled with the way the car handles right out of the box. I made a few minor changes to the box setup and from there was able to take the TQ and win this past weekend. There are a few more things i would like to try but overall i have to say,this was one of my better experiences with a car on carpet. Overall i am extremely happy with it. I cant imagine how much better it will be once i get some time on it.
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Old 11-25-2007, 09:00 PM   #5940
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Awesome. Does that mean we'll see some BMI's up-hops for the Type-R in the future?
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