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Old 07-30-2006, 09:03 AM   #16
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[QUOTE=edracer1]I think setting up a car is just another skill beyond driving. Some or maybe most racers just don't have this skill to set up a car. QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ford_racing]Thats what I use, as I am becoming more experienced I an using the setups as a base and then changing it to suit my driving style.

I agree with Ed's point, and like Ford I am becoming more of an experieced driver. I think the setup skills come after being a good driver. So for me starting with a pro setup allows me to fucus on my driving skills more so than setup. Also, with a setup that is close to perfect I can make small changes and learn how the car reacts...but without pinpoint driving skills, setting up a car from scratch without guidence could be a frustrating exercise.
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Old 07-30-2006, 11:10 AM   #17
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I can see this being a problem for asphalt, but like someone else said, the carpet most of us are using is basically the same from place to place. The traction comes up at big races, but it seems like the way guys deal with that is with gluing sidewalls of their tires, and possibly going to a thicker chassis. Minor things at best. I've found that the good carpet setups (with foams) transfer really well to our track. Not so much with rubber tires.

I'm willing to bet that in almost all cases, the "dialed" setups from team drivers are closer to a reasonable base setup (for a given surface) than what the manual says. That's especially true if you add options to your car for specific kinds of racing, like foams/carpet for example. Most of the "pro" setups take those parts into consideration, which is useful if you're trying to remain on the bleeding edge.
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Old 07-30-2006, 09:02 PM   #18
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Wow I would have never thought someone would ever ask this question, mainly because it's rediculous. The factory drivers generally know their cars inside and out, and therefore can take every advantage of each tuning option on their car and adjust them together to get the fastest setup they can at the time. Just because you have your expo a little lower, or a little lower DR, or the track conditions aren't identical doesn't mean a good setup will not work at all. Each high end race car comes with one or a few starting setups for different conditions, and those are most likely to be the best setups they had a the time of the cars release. But when a driver improves his setup they're not going to change each of the printed instruction manual simply because that would be rediculous to attempt. Setups are always changing and improving, and that's why we keep working with our cars to make them have more steering, carry better corner speed, and work more effeciently. A ton of drivers with Schumacher Mi2's have run my asphalt setups from the Reedy race and '05 paved nats at other asphalt tracks and they have really liked them, in fact I'm pretty sure that every Mi2 driver that has used one of my setups has liked it. When they ask for one I give them a setup I have that would be best fitted or most easily adapted for their class and conditions. If a factory driver's setup only worked at the track that he got that setup on, then no one would ever use those setups and in fact the setup in the instruction manual would never work either. I also wouldn't be able to run the setup from last years Vegas race on super high traction carpet on my home tracks very low traction carpet, but I do, I just make very minor changes. The general setup is the same, but I've tweaked minor things and we have a new car with slightly different geometry to work with. A factory driver's setup may never be perfect, but if you running it in similar conditions then it should be damn close and maybe only require minor changes to make it work the best. Although many people don't make the right changes or they will take one of our setups and make changes to it "to suit their driving style" or "personal preference", such as saying "instead of starting with a oneway I used a diff because I never like running oneways since I cant get my car to work with them". Well there's your problem right there, you're not actually running the setup they gave you.
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Old 07-31-2006, 08:21 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by John Warner
Well, personally I think that IF I had the skills and could drive like Cuffs, Baker or any of the top name drivers then I'd want to start with their setup. BUT.... since I (and most others) don't have those talents and years and years of experience I'd rather try this or that to find what works for me. The learning experience of how to set your own car up alone is very valuable!

That's MY .02 cents worth!
I very much agree on this... learning how to set your own car is much better than "copying" a setup from others. What will happen when you go to other track for racing??? look for the pro's and say " set my car'???... They have other things to do dude...

We all have different reflex speed and skill... if the drivers sets his car to be more aggresive and more responsive... we who have not developed that skills will definately find the car twitchy or too sensitive or whaever the stting is... IMHO.. set it at you comfortable level of driving skill and learn how to set the car to suit your own driving skill.... just my oppinion anyway... Happy racing everybody!!!!
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Old 07-31-2006, 11:57 AM   #20
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It's good to hear several opinions on this topic. To those who feel this question is ridiculous, I never said that a particular setup wouldn't work, I merely asked why you would try that setup while running on a different track with different traction. I agree that carpet setups generally transfer from one track to the next with minor changes. It's possible that the Snowbirds setup for any of the top drivers was very aggressive for them with high traction. When you transfer is to your medium traction home track, it is less aggressive because of less traction in the carpet and maybe that's why it works. I was also under the impression that box stock setups were considered neutral so that they would work decent at any given track but not neccessarily great at any track. I've driven at races where the car felt great in the first qual, traction rolled in the second and worked better in the third after a front spring change. When I started racing, everyone with a TC3 ran the same setup so that's what I ran. Now my T2 feels good to me but others who have driven it say it has no steering or too much steering. I definitely don't have Jeff Cuffs driving skill so I can't expect his setup to work for me. Nor would I expect my "dialed" home track setup to work for Cuffs if he came to town. Good starting setup, sure but I doubt it would be "dialed" for him. But who am I, but a meager slave to this hobby. Keep the comments coming, I like to hear all of the differing opinions.
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Old 07-31-2006, 02:13 PM   #21
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This probably doesn't translate as well for asphalt, because of varying track abrasiveness, temperature and smoothness (bumps, no bumps), but since most carpet tracks are the same surface it works. Here's the biggest reason why:

If your car is setup very well for a similar layout and traction compound (jack vs. paragon) to the national event you're going to, with the exception of maybe one or two small changes, all you're going to tune with is tires. How long you let the traction compound sit, what size, how much sidewall glued etc. etc. This is the reason why a good national race setup will work for club races because you just change the way you work with your tires. You don't necessarily glue the tires for a club race, and you generally let the traction compound soak longer. Most people usually start their tires quite a bit larger for club racing than for a big race, as well.

Now, a setup from the Vegas race might not work as good for your track as one from Cleveland. Cleveland is typically a much more technical track than vegas was. If your track is like that, a Cleveland setup would probably work better. The pros' setups are optimized for the type of track they raced on.
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Old 07-31-2006, 03:07 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by stiltskin
No, I'm not saying that it didn't work. Maybe it did. Example: our local track (at best) is medium/high traction. I'm sure that after several days of Paragon, the Snowbirds track was super high traction. So why would I try to run a setup from one of the winning cars? Instead of trying 10 different setups from ten different races for 10 different drivers, why not just learn how to setup a car and make your own adjustments?
Not sure if this was answered already (couldnt be bother reading lol) Its simple. When im checking out setup sheets, most have a description on track conditions, be they slick, tight, long , wide open, super traction etc etc etc. The setups where this isnt noted are much more hit-n-miss in my book. I check out setups that dont necessarily meet my current track conditions perfect, but are damn close. For instance, you start with whether you running foam/rubber and whether your on carpet/asphalt. for example, i then break it down again, on my MSX there is two different types of suspension, so again ill look for a setup that meets all of those requirements. Then I find one which has similar track conditions. If i can find one with majority of conditions similar, i find it an awesome start to a good setup. But its true that even the pros drive differently from each other. For instance, i was told that Mike Swauger (Mugen) likes to have a car with oversteer. I prefer neutral or a little understeer, so I started with Mike's setup (same track conditions as where i was racing etc) and made a few adjustments. Ive raced for quite a long time, in every class, yet i dont have the time to document my own setups. I generally find a pro's setup i like, and add some changes, and keep it in a file. Seems to work for me, Each car is predictable each time i take it out, and with 1-2 minor adjustments, i can run a whole day without messing with setups. In RC, there is NOTHING worse than starting with a crap setup.... you can be there all day long sometimes....
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Old 08-01-2006, 09:39 AM   #23
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Generally when somebody's referring to something being 'dialed' they're talking about a configuration that works well for them.

While each track is different, there are a lot of commonalities between a nice clean running configuration.

If you look at the setup sheets from the majors, you'll see a lot of repeat occurances for specific items. You can glean a lot of information by comparing setup sheets for the majors with the dimensions and layout of the track. If only we had a true measuring guage for traction level, you could reduce initial-setup to a science. =)
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Old 08-01-2006, 09:45 AM   #24
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I'm using the Hara Pro4 Carpet set on my RDX (asphalt) and it's DIALED!!!!

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Old 08-01-2006, 02:19 PM   #25
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I'm using Tony R's setup and man, that thing is DIALED!

Too bad my batteries are flat, my brushes are burned and I can't drive.

Last edited by EVILGRAFX; 08-01-2006 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 08-01-2006, 03:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by EVILGRAFX
I'm using Tony Rumple's setup and man, that thing is DIALED!

Too bad my batteries are flat, my brushes are burned and I can't drive.

You rock.
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Old 08-01-2006, 06:59 PM   #27
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It probably doesn't apply to a lot of other cars, but if you look at the RDX setups for carpet, as an example, they are all very close. The only things that seem to change are rear toe, perhaps one spring up or down, basically small things are driver preference, or a chance for a certain track. Which is probably why the car works so well for so many people. At least for that car, a dialed setup probably is dialed.
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Old 08-01-2006, 07:42 PM   #28
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i used other pro drivers setup just for referrence, but i would take in consider what track and how tight and traction, if its tight and its an aspalt , i would try to test on thier suspension setup, and compare it to my existing setup. .thats what im doing right now, comparing, i would definitly disagree when people say thier car is dialed just buy copying other pro drivers setup, assuming the dont have the same track.if its so dialed its your skills and setups that makes it dialed. give some compliment on yourself.
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Old 08-01-2006, 08:02 PM   #29
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Its always good to learn your setups on your own, but to look at the pros setups is not such a bad idea. For instance I run a AE B4 buggy and without looking around i would not have known that a very high percentage of drivers run 1oz of weight in the rear bulkhead. No one locally at my track knew this and i foudn that it really helped the buggy jump better ad i had cronick lawn dart syndrome for a while and gained rear grip..

From looking at pro setups you can probably weed out some adjustments that simply dont work or dont get used....

No 2 tracks are the same but many cars do develep a sweet spot some narrow and some wide...... ITs good to keep your mind open to other setups including the pros.
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Old 08-02-2006, 12:46 AM   #30
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from my experience, pro`s setup never work due to the fact that at the event they raced at they were probably there for 3 days or more so the grip will be immense!!
Club and national grip levels wont reach this level, sadly but what i tend to do if i have a new car or a new surface etc is get a few setup sheets and compare what the common features are like oll centres springs etc, if you go with this then you will never be far away a spring here, half a deg of camber there etc.

Hope this helps, rather than just copying a setup that a top guy uses, also if you look at the top drivers, take andy moore and hara at the worlds, looking at there cars they were setup differently!! do you not think they tried each others setups but they went back to what THEY preferred. so unless you drive like hara or moore then its not DIALED
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