IFMAR AGM in Collegno - Future of ISTC
#661
Originally Posted by tonyv
Ok, let's follow that train of thought for a while. Right now we are not taking advantage as things are certainly not hassle free. Two years ago the V2 design kept us going without problems a little longer, but now even V2 motors have to be serviced every run and even V2 motors show the smoke of defeat every once in a while. Now assuming manufacturors are genuinely doing their best to solve these problems and aren't getting there, something will need to change. Moreover I think the car's will need to have more grip and handle better than they do now if we go for even more speed.
What do you propose should happen to get us hassle free and even faster runs?
What do you propose should happen to get us hassle free and even faster runs?
I can't say I am an expert on speedos. But I can see that they are much smaller than they once were. Sure the smaller units are much better than their bigger predecessors, but I fail to see the reasoning behind smaller and smaller speedos when they overheat at their current specs.
Maybe they can't be made better. I can not say for sure. It w ould be interesting to see how big a speedo (brushless) would have to be so that it could provide bulletproof operation.
As an industry (electric), I believe we will do a lot better for ourselves by solving the problems we have with better products.
#662
Originally Posted by srhand
Very true, I run 12th scale as well so have 5 sets of cells for each scale, what would be a good idea is if they do take it down to 4 cells do the same for off road so there is a blanket base for all the main variations. As a lot of people do race more than one class this would also bring the cost down across the sport making it more accesseble to the masses.
I also race 12th scale and I only keep 4 packs for that....
#663
Tech Initiate
Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
See, there's no way I want to go to 4 cells in 10th Stadium Truck... Although I will never use the available power (running a 14 turn) I like to know that I have that extra little ooomph to clear the jumps.
I also race 12th scale and I only keep 4 packs for that....
I also race 12th scale and I only keep 4 packs for that....
I can see your point!!! But if we start with sedan how long will it be before it transfers to off road as well? Plus i'm sure by the time we're running 5000 there will be enough ooomph there to clear the jumps.
#664
Tech Elite
iTrader: (12)
i love arguing about limiting traction with the folks that import the spec tires we race on... but i digress
also someone explain to me how going to 4 cells is not going to make more of an emphais on great batteries, perfectly tuned motors with fresh brushes, and fresh tires that most of us can barely afford now? novices don't have speed issues, they have right hand and left index finger issues called learning to drive.. we insist novices drive stock, and they drive slowly into the boards.... the issue here is slowing down experienced and pro drivers who can handle a mildly traction restriced car which de-emphasises the need for all out HP and electronic abuse... 4 cells will bring all the headache that the stock class has now on the competitive level... premium everything!
also someone explain to me how going to 4 cells is not going to make more of an emphais on great batteries, perfectly tuned motors with fresh brushes, and fresh tires that most of us can barely afford now? novices don't have speed issues, they have right hand and left index finger issues called learning to drive.. we insist novices drive stock, and they drive slowly into the boards.... the issue here is slowing down experienced and pro drivers who can handle a mildly traction restriced car which de-emphasises the need for all out HP and electronic abuse... 4 cells will bring all the headache that the stock class has now on the competitive level... premium everything!
#665
Originally Posted by srhand
I can see your point!!! But if we start with sedan how long will it be before it transfers to off road as well? Plus i'm sure by the time we're running 5000 there will be enough ooomph there to clear the jumps.
4 cell sedan will make this a race only class, you're only going to buy a car to race. You'll lose a lot of the people buying a car to run with their buddies and people coming over from off road or EP MT's.
12th scale and oval are race only cars, do you see someone buying either chassis to go run for fun??
#666
Tech Elite
iTrader: (44)
Originally Posted by tallyrc
also someone explain to me how going to 4 cells is not going to make more of an emphais on great batteries, perfectly tuned motors with fresh brushes, and fresh tires that most of us can barely afford now?
#667
Tech Initiate
Originally Posted by tomdav
Ok when is this ever going to change? You say we can barely afford it now but dont give us reasons why four cell will be more expensive.
Having fresh bang upto date equipment is always going to be there no mater what happens its just the way any form of competitive sport is.
Four cells would be cheaper in the long run:
Here in the UK,
matched 43's 4 cells £25 6 cells £40
Ps this is from Demon models (thought i'd get the plug in i might get some free stuff!!!)
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work it out!
#668
Tech Elite
iTrader: (12)
Originally Posted by tomdav
Ok when is this ever going to change? You say we can barely afford it now but dont give us reasons why four cell will be more expensive.
#670
Tech Elite
iTrader: (12)
show up at a major race with your 3 month old club packs and see how you hold up power wise compared to the folks that have brand new fresh cycled packs....in open mod i buy new batteries maybe every year and a half.... power is never an issue... (i run relatively short tracks 80-100' straight, asphalt) if we were to run 4 cells and i tried that against someone else buying new batts all the time, forget it...
#671
Tech Elite
iTrader: (44)
I have been following this for some time now. What I do not get is why a voltage regulator is not the answer. Who cares about the batteries if you are limited on the voltage available to your motor. This is very easy to tech, then you don't not have worry about if someone has something special. Turn on the car, take a reading and if to much voltage is coming out of the regulator, then you are DQed. It is elec. most everyone has a meter, so there should be no reason for you to "not know".
I just do not get all this talk and the answer is a simple one.
Or what I'm I missing?
I just do not get all this talk and the answer is a simple one.
Or what I'm I missing?
#672
Tech Elite
iTrader: (44)
Originally Posted by tallyrc
did you read the post? anytime there is a restrictive class, it puts more of an emphasis on premium equipment such as better batteries, new brushes every round, cutting the com (new motors) fresh tires....
Yea I read it. So how many cells do you race with now? I'm guessing your restricted to 6. I do agree with you that restricted classes "stock" will always be expensive. If I go to a big race I will buy new packs and cut my com and replace brushes every few runs to be competitive. If we race with four cells I'll still buy new cells and cut the com every few runs but now spend less on batteries. What we need is some hard data to make an informed view as opposed to just shooting from the hip.
I think the biggest threat to our hobby is it becoming cost prohibitive which leads to a continuing decline in racers. All I want is to do show up for a club race and see 80 to 90 people a night and know that Im not going to spend the kids college fund to stay in the game.
Last edited by tomdav; 07-20-2006 at 12:51 PM.
#673
Tech Champion
iTrader: (4)
Originally Posted by bvoltz
I have been following this for some time now. What I do not get is why a voltage regulator is not the answer. Who cares about the batteries if you are limited on the voltage available to your motor. This is very easy to tech, then you don't not have worry about if someone has something special. Turn on the car, take a reading and if to much voltage is coming out of the regulator, then you are DQed. It is elec. most everyone has a meter, so there should be no reason for you to "not know".
I just do not get all this talk and the answer is a simple one.
Or what I'm I missing?
I just do not get all this talk and the answer is a simple one.
Or what I'm I missing?
Occam' Razor: "With all things being equal , the simplest explanation/answer is normally the right one"
We covered this a few pages back. It would not be a small device, the more accurate you wanted it to be the more expensive it would be, it would require calibration and tech, where would it fit on our current chassis, would we raise the min weight to compensate for it, is it another opportunity to cheat?
A voltage or current regulator is a costly and overly complicated solution that can create new problems.
Reducing cell count is simple and costs nothing.
#674
Originally Posted by AdrianM
There is a philosophical law taught on day one of every engineering class:
Occam' Razor: "With all things being equal , the simplest explanation/answer is normally the right one"
We covered this a few pages back. It would not be a small device, the more accurate you wanted it to be the more expensive it would be, it would require calibration and tech, where would it fit on our current chassis, would we raise the min weight to compensate for it, is it another opportunity to cheat?
A voltage or current regulator is a costly and overly complicated solution that can create new problems.
Reducing cell count is simple and costs nothing.
Occam' Razor: "With all things being equal , the simplest explanation/answer is normally the right one"
We covered this a few pages back. It would not be a small device, the more accurate you wanted it to be the more expensive it would be, it would require calibration and tech, where would it fit on our current chassis, would we raise the min weight to compensate for it, is it another opportunity to cheat?
A voltage or current regulator is a costly and overly complicated solution that can create new problems.
Reducing cell count is simple and costs nothing.
The simplest solution is to build better products. I'll use Jeff's quote on this. "If I can only make a sticker that stuck to a body for 2 weeks, should I have a rule passed that you have to change the body every 2 weeks?"
#675
Originally Posted by bvoltz
I have been following this for some time now. What I do not get is why a voltage regulator is not the answer. Who cares about the batteries if you are limited on the voltage available to your motor. This is very easy to tech, then you don't not have worry about if someone has something special. Turn on the car, take a reading and if to much voltage is coming out of the regulator, then you are DQed. It is elec. most everyone has a meter, so there should be no reason for you to "not know".
I just do not get all this talk and the answer is a simple one.
Or what I'm I missing?
I just do not get all this talk and the answer is a simple one.
Or what I'm I missing?
The perfect technical gizmo would be a solid state accelerometer (the sort of high tech gizmo that's used to control missiles by inertial guidance systems) it could control acceleration in a straight line and cornering speeds plus braking in fact it could control everything! A 3-axis acceleromter could detect the movement of the car in all directions and connected into a speedo could prevent any electronics and motor 'abuse', it could even make everyone have equal car performance (as equal as the gizmo could be set and calibrated to be equal) and they don't cost very much... but they're not allowed and most likely nobody wants them either.