Why NO Top Shaft Tourers?
07-16-2006, 05:07 PM
#76
True... being away from the centre will magnify the torque effect as the force vector now has a lever to act upon the chassis. But that's not really it.
It doesn't matter WHERE the longitudinal torque generator is located, it will still cause a torque effect....
Old centreline mounted prop-planes like the mustang had big issues with centreline torque.
The shaft does indeed contribute to the torque effect. But it's mass is relatively low. The motor armature however is heavy and spins very fast. Furthermore, it accelerates in both directions violently. Try holding a mod motor in your hand and gunning the throttle. (BE CAREFUL!!!)
The centre shaft has a much lower weight, spins at a slower speed and is centralised...
The motor is the main source or torque generation as the motor can is bolted solidly to the chassis.
It doesn't matter WHERE the longitudinal torque generator is located, it will still cause a torque effect....
Old centreline mounted prop-planes like the mustang had big issues with centreline torque.
The shaft does indeed contribute to the torque effect. But it's mass is relatively low. The motor armature however is heavy and spins very fast. Furthermore, it accelerates in both directions violently. Try holding a mod motor in your hand and gunning the throttle. (BE CAREFUL!!!)
The centre shaft has a much lower weight, spins at a slower speed and is centralised...
The motor is the main source or torque generation as the motor can is bolted solidly to the chassis.
07-16-2006, 06:08 PM
#77
Originally Posted by AngryAsian
It doesn't matter WHERE the longitudinal torque generator is located, it will still cause a torque effect....
Whatever tiny force the shaft exerts will be hundreds or thousands of times less than the force that the motor exerts, no matter where it is.
07-16-2006, 08:22 PM
#78
What Happened to Shaft Cars?
Fellas! There is a reason why we are not seeing Shaft cars on the A-mains at pro levels...its because the best drivers, like Hara, Surikarm, Masami, etc, were all driving shaft cars as recent as 2 yrs ago!!! When the belted cars started comming out, like the JRX-S, RDX, Mi2, Tamiya, etc, in 2004-2005, those team drivers began to drive the belt cars, and we have followed. The point is that its not necessarily because the belt cars are better cars, over the shaft, or vise versa, but rather that world drivers have jumped on the "belt car" bandwagon, whether out of curiosity, or experience, or because their bosses want them too, or whatever else it could be. Have we forgotten that the 2005, Reedy Race Champion was the Associated FT TC4, piloted by Craig Dreshcer? Hello? I have personally owned shaft and belt cars. Shaft cars defenitely have an edge when it comes to acceleration and ease of maintannce. As far as torque steer, that can easily be fixed with the ESC set up and Radio. Its easy and will make the car run as smooth as belted cars on any surface. Its just a driving style and preference. I love shaft cars, especially in modified, as I know that when I push that throttle, the car will give me the power I ask, without the fear of belt skipping, or ripping, or damage to them...
07-16-2006, 09:06 PM
#79
the world is full of people buying what they dont need due to marketing, if it works use it.Personally i think belt drive is more money and maintenance(marketing?) and you can tune out torque steer.
07-16-2006, 10:43 PM
#80
Originally Posted by PerformanceRC
the world is full of people buying what they dont need due to marketing, if it works use it.Personally i think belt drive is more money and maintenance(marketing?) and you can tune out torque steer.
When i ran the Pro4 the only thing that really held it back was the mild torque steer when accelerating down the straight. I've found the belt car to be much more stable.
(I really miss that shaft drive "snap" though.. it's kinda tough going from shaft to belt. the car feels so much mushier..)
07-17-2006, 12:05 AM
#82
Well I wasn't going to continue with this debate but.....
I'm unaware of any radio or esc adjustment that allows you to break the laws of physics 
You may be able to adjust throttle curve, current limiting etc to give a smoother take off - but this not the same as eliminating torque steer - it isn't possible.
Too broad a statement to make. An "open" shaft drive layout like the old Alex racing cars would just as much maintenance as any belt drive. And again "you can tune out torque steer" - see my above comment.
I have just started running an Evo 5 after 7 month of running an 415MSX. As both cars are VERY similar in all aspects except for the transmissin - it makes comparisons between the two quite accurate.
The MSX is no doubt smoother, and is much easier to drive (throttle), as the horesepower increases. The Evo has noticeably more "punch", and it's proven to be quite a help in lower power classes (stock, 19T) - though with a 7t bolted in I'm expecting the car to need a smooth throttle finger to keep it under control.
Maintenance is a non-issue on both - as they can both be run for quite q few meetings without the need to re-build, but of course spur gear changes on the Evo are a flippin' nightmare.
The bottom line is that they both have their good and bad points - neither are perfect.
For simplicity's sake, it helps to remember this rule when comparing transmission types:
Shaft drives are VERY efficient at slow speeds, and LOSE efficiency as speed INCREASES.
Belt drives are VERY efficient at high speeds, and LOSE efficiency as speed DECREASES.
Originally Posted by yyhayyim
As far as torque steer, that can easily be fixed with the ESC set up and Radio. Its easy and will make the car run as smooth as belted cars on any surface
I'm unaware of any radio or esc adjustment that allows you to break the laws of physics You may be able to adjust throttle curve, current limiting etc to give a smoother take off - but this not the same as eliminating torque steer - it isn't possible.
Originally Posted by PerformanceRC
Personally i think belt drive is more money and maintenance(marketing?) and you can tune out torque steer.
I have just started running an Evo 5 after 7 month of running an 415MSX. As both cars are VERY similar in all aspects except for the transmissin - it makes comparisons between the two quite accurate.
The MSX is no doubt smoother, and is much easier to drive (throttle), as the horesepower increases. The Evo has noticeably more "punch", and it's proven to be quite a help in lower power classes (stock, 19T) - though with a 7t bolted in I'm expecting the car to need a smooth throttle finger to keep it under control.
Maintenance is a non-issue on both - as they can both be run for quite q few meetings without the need to re-build, but of course spur gear changes on the Evo are a flippin' nightmare.
The bottom line is that they both have their good and bad points - neither are perfect.
For simplicity's sake, it helps to remember this rule when comparing transmission types:
Shaft drives are VERY efficient at slow speeds, and LOSE efficiency as speed INCREASES.
Belt drives are VERY efficient at high speeds, and LOSE efficiency as speed DECREASES.
07-17-2006, 12:15 AM
#83
Originally Posted by Drewdc90
Yes it is definitely the motor that causes the torque steer as my T2 torque steers slighly even though it doesn't have a shaft. You will never have a car that doesn't torque steer, all you can do is reduce it.
The torque action of a motor mounted across the car is always going to be fore-aft only, you can check this by balancing the middle of your cars chassis on you arm and then revving the motor - the car will always lift the front and drop the rear (and vice versa when you use the brakes).
There's no way that the fore-aft torque movement can be transferred laterally, except in rare cases like the motor is positioned right next to the left rear wheel and the chassis is horribly unbalanced left to right.
If your XRay seems to "torque steer" it is not from the motor, but rather other issues like tweak, weight unbalance, incorrect steering setup, incorrect droop/ride height settings, binding in an axle, cvd joint, diff outdrive etc
07-17-2006, 12:46 AM
#84
Thanks for that bender, I just tought it was torque steer because the car has always turned slightly to one side when the throttle is applied but once the car stops accelerating it tracks straight. I thought it was that because the motor is on the left side that the left wheels will get more force against them which could cause torque steer.
07-17-2006, 02:02 AM
#86
Yeah man thats seriously tweeked.....you can only have torque steer when the motor is mounted front to back(latitudinaly?).
Try this: Hold your t2 and rev it flat,you will notice it will tip back alot,this is essentially what torque steer is but side to side.
Hope this helps drew,GO THE T2's!
Cheers,
Nick
Try this: Hold your t2 and rev it flat,you will notice it will tip back alot,this is essentially what torque steer is but side to side.
Hope this helps drew,GO THE T2's!
Cheers,
Nick
07-17-2006, 02:11 AM
#88
Interesting debate here....
How many of you have owned a few different shafties?
Had more than one including a tc3?
If "yes" you would have noticed very little torque steer from the tc3 compared to your other shaftie. This is because a tc3 has different suspension geo left to right to "counter" the torque steer effect. It can be done quite easy by anyone tho... Just add a slight tweak to both ends of your car and the torque steer will be almost non-exsistent.
How many of you have owned a few different shafties?
Had more than one including a tc3?
If "yes" you would have noticed very little torque steer from the tc3 compared to your other shaftie. This is because a tc3 has different suspension geo left to right to "counter" the torque steer effect. It can be done quite easy by anyone tho... Just add a slight tweak to both ends of your car and the torque steer will be almost non-exsistent.
07-17-2006, 02:21 AM
#89
Tech Master
How do you add tweak to a car?
Pardon my newbishness... but what is torque steer? I know it exists in all shaft cars... but that's it?
Pardon my newbishness... but what is torque steer? I know it exists in all shaft cars... but that's it?