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Old 01-05-2007, 11:08 AM   #1306
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Originally Posted by TPhalen
Well, it COULD have been done by now, but the ONE designer didn't feel it was completely ready. It's his baby....when he feels its the best it can be, it'll be done.
Ofcourse it have to be ready before you start selling it. Only one problem, how can you afford not to have a touring car for sale. As you said sometime ago noone want to buy the TC4 anymore. The development on TC5 should have started much earlier. The evolution of racing cars is ongoing.

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Originally Posted by Speedie
One thing ppl need to realize is that when the US companies release a car it is done right. And it sticks around for a while and isnt outdated in 6 months and replaced. The TC4 was just a bandaid on an old design and wasnt a new car just a better(?) TC3. I give Associated big props for not falling into the TC of the week rut and sticking to thier values of providing the best possable products that stand the test of time. I know inovation and new technology is what makes a winning car thats why the new belt car is worth the wait.
Was the Losi JRXS done right....
Was the TC4 done right. Maybe not good enough as they have problem selling it.

As an example the development of the Tamiya TRF415 series.

-Tamiya 415 came out february 2004 - the layout was the benchmark for the new generation of touring cars. Almost all manufacturers uses this motor / battery / drivetrain layout today !

-Tamiya 415MS out in november 2004 - same as previous except new lightweight suspension.

-Tamiya 415MSX out in november 2005 - main changes easy diff access bulkheads, lowered top deck for lower CG, aluminium diff.

-Tamiya 415MSX MR limited edition september 2006 - main changes new steering system, new efficient beltpulleys.

-Tamiya 415 MSXX will be out march 2007 - basically the same as the previous version but lower price.

I feel the TRF415 series have been a success story saleswise so Tamiya can't have done a really bad work.

I have both the first version the TRF415 and the latest TRF415 MSX MR
and the diffrence on track is very big. This just shows that development is constantly ongoing in small steps. I don't think even Associated could build a car that is still top level, big seller after 2-3 years from the release date. This because the development is going on faster and faster all the time. It wont stop as long as there is a big market for TC cars.

It will be intersting to see what approach Associated will take on the TC5.
The future will tell if Associated will experience the glory days of TC3 time again.
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Old 01-05-2007, 11:22 AM   #1307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonman
Ofcourse it have to be ready before you start selling it. Only one problem, how can you afford not to have a touring car for sale. As you said sometime ago noone want to buy the TC4 anymore. The development on TC5 should have started much earlier. The evolution of racing cars is ongoing.



Was the Losi JRXS done right....
Was the TC4 done right. Maybe not good enough as they have problem selling it.

As an example the development of the Tamiya TRF415 series.

-Tamiya 415 came out february 2004 - the layout was the benchmark for the new generation of touring cars. Almost all manufacturers uses this motor / battery / drivetrain layout today !

-Tamiya 415MS out in november 2004 - same as previous except new lightweight suspension.

-Tamiya 415MSX out in november 2005 - main changes easy diff access bulkheads, lowered top deck for lower CG, aluminium diff.

-Tamiya 415MSX MR limited edition september 2006 - main changes new steering system, new efficient beltpulleys.

-Tamiya 415 MSXX will be out march 2007 - basically the same as the previous version but lower price.

I feel the TRF415 series have been a success story saleswise so Tamiya can't have done a really bad work.

I have both the first version the TRF415 and the latest TRF415 MSX MR
and the diffrence on track is very big. This just shows that development is constantly ongoing in small steps. I don't think even Associated could build a car that is still top level, big seller after 2-3 years from the release date. This because the development is going on faster and faster all the time. It wont stop as long as there is a big market for TC cars.

It will be intersting to see what approach Associated will take on the TC5.
The future will tell if Associated will experience the glory days of TC3 time again.
DUDE,

From your post it seems you like the Tamiya stuff and the way they do business. I would look at AE track record for all of the cars they put out and not just the TC. They try to only put out the best period!

This thread is for those that think the glass is half full not cracked and leaking fast. I was taught if I did not have anything nice to say do not say anything. I think for some guys on these forums they should follow that rule and not post unless they have something nice to say.


Later
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Old 01-05-2007, 11:42 AM   #1308
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Tamiya just wanted to sell you new kits, so they released small updates as a whole new car. See also: XRay. You call it innovation, I call it gouging consumers. Ooh look, a new topdeck, lets wrap it up in a new kit and sell it to our fans for $500!

But hey, there's plenty of people that think they need to spend hundreds of dollars on every new kit that comes out, and companies are more than willing to exploit it. Who can blame them, they're in the business to make money. Brand loyalty = $$$.

Need a recent success story of a car that's been steadily upgraded without the release of a new kit? How about the Corally RDX?
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Old 01-05-2007, 11:45 AM   #1309
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Ok

I think in my posts here I tell the reality and facts how I see it. I understand if somone of you dont like it or don't agree with me.
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Old 01-05-2007, 11:47 AM   #1310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonman
Ofcourse it have to be ready before you start selling it. Only one problem, how can you afford not to have a touring car for sale. As you said sometime ago noone want to buy the TC4 anymore. The development on TC5 should have started much earlier. The evolution of racing cars is ongoing.

Was the Losi JRXS done right....
Was the TC4 done right. Maybe not good enough as they have problem selling it.

As an example the development of the Tamiya TRF415 series.

-Tamiya 415 came out february 2004 - the layout was the benchmark for the new generation of touring cars. Almost all manufacturers uses this motor / battery / drivetrain layout today !

-Tamiya 415MS out in november 2004 - same as previous except new lightweight suspension.

-Tamiya 415MSX out in november 2005 - main changes easy diff access bulkheads, lowered top deck for lower CG, aluminium diff.

-Tamiya 415MSX MR limited edition september 2006 - main changes new steering system, new efficient beltpulleys.

-Tamiya 415 MSXX will be out march 2007 - basically the same as the previous version but lower price.

I feel the TRF415 series have been a success story saleswise so Tamiya can't have done a really bad work.

I have both the first version the TRF415 and the latest TRF415 MSX MR
and the diffrence on track is very big. This just shows that development is constantly ongoing in small steps. I don't think even Associated could build a car that is still top level, big seller after 2-3 years from the release date. This because the development is going on faster and faster all the time. It wont stop as long as there is a big market for TC cars.

It will be intersting to see what approach Associated will take on the TC5.
The future will tell if Associated will experience the glory days of TC3 time again.
if you are happy with the Tamiya... why are you on this thread harassing these people? the way i see it... as a customer. Associated is in a Catch-22.

release the car to please people like you just because they want the car out. then when an update comes out.. someone is gonna complain and whine. Associated loses.

Associated releases the car on THEIR timeline, when they feel its perfect. and the public doesnt have to do the beta testing.. people complain and whine because they dont want to wait so long. Associated loses.

Associated has been around a long time, and this is their decision to release the car when they feel its ready. not to have the public beta test it and report back to them to fix any bugs (kind of what Microsoft does), this eventually becomes a customer service nightmare. Associated loses again because the public will complain.

looks to me.. either way Associated loses. so like Kevin stated in the post above, if you have nothing nice to say, dont post. Or stick to Tamiya. Negativity isn't productive at this point.

but my insider source at Associated said the car will be released in "two weeks" (borrowed that from the Losi thread. )

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Old 01-05-2007, 11:49 AM   #1311
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I just think it's a mistake to assume that a new kit being released is a sign of innovation. In some cases, that's definitely true. But in other cases, the changes are so small, you could easily look at it as a ploy to sell more kits. XRay and Tamiya are the two biggest culprits. Yes, they make great cars, nobody is denying that. But, there's plenty of other great cars made by companies that don't release new kits every 8 months, and they manage to be competitive all the same. Don't let brand loyalty cloud your vision.
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Old 01-05-2007, 11:50 AM   #1312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonman
But why have some of your sponsored drivers been seen driving an other manufacturers car in testing then? For sure he would drive a TC5 prototype if he had one.

At the beginning of the development of ANY new car, manufacturers 'test' other vehicles to see what's up, check 'em out, have something to shoot for. At that time, it's possible a top level driver gives the car a go, but that is not the standard. If the designer is a driver, most likely HE will be the one driving the car....for the 'rumor' reasons you've described.

Now, car is in the prototype stages. There is NO reason a sponsored driver should be driving a competitors car...none. If he gets a prototype, why WOULD he drive one? If he doesn't, we still offer another vehicle he can drive (in this case, the FT TC4). Sure, it may not be up to snuff with the current crop of cars, but in due time we will have a winning vehicle out there. So, if there IS a sponsored driver doing this, he shouldn't be.

Quote:
Of course it have to be ready before you start selling it. Only one problem, how can you afford not to have a touring car for sale. As you said sometime ago noone want to buy the TC4 anymore. The development on TC5 should have started much earlier. The evolution of racing cars is ongoing.
We can afford not to have one because we are still developing one. People expect perfection from us, or as close as possible. If it's junk out of the box, we won't be selling it ANYWAY.


Quote:
-Tamiya 415 came out february 2004
-Tamiya 415MS out in november 2004
-Tamiya 415MSX out in november 2005
-Tamiya 415MSX MR limited edition september 2006
-Tamiya 415 MSXX will be out march 2007
You have to remember something, overseas market (read: asian markets) THRIVE on new, constant products. US markets don't. Yokomo used to come out with a new vehicle every 6 months or so. Asian markets LOVED it. US didn't. Yokomo is not very popular in the US anymore because of that. In return, AE is not very popular in Japan because 'we don't have new products as fast as Yokomo'. Tamiya follows the same theories.... Not to mention, doesn't it piss you off to have to buy (if you want to keep up) 5 cars in 2 years?????? Or, in 2 years you could have ONE new car that is still winning.

Quote:
It will be intersting to see what approach Associated will take on the TC5.
The future will tell if Associated will experience the glory days of TC3 time again.
Which brings us up to the next point. At the time of the TC3, how many other companies were out there running TC???? 1 or 2 (good ones)? How many are there now???? Let's see...
  • Losi
  • Yokomo
  • Corally
  • XRay
  • Hot Bodies
  • HPI
  • Tamiya
  • Kyosho

And those are just off the top of my head....and ALL of those companies have stepped up the game to make super-competitive racing machines.

Yes, we realize that we made a bit of a mistake with the FT TC4. But now, we have to make something equal or BETTER than at LEAST 8 different companies. And, each of those has a pretty solid team backing them.

Quite the difficult market to get into, now that we are a little late. One reason the designer is doing his best to make sure this thing is THAT good....he has a lot of design and manufacture time invested.

It'll be good. It'll be fast. It'll be typical Associated.
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Old 01-05-2007, 11:53 AM   #1313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonman
Ok

I think in my posts here I tell the reality and facts how I see it. I understand if somone of you dont like it or don't agree with me.
It's cool. This subject comes around every few weeks. It's your opinion....just trying to give you our side of it....accept it on not.
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Old 01-05-2007, 01:53 PM   #1314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPhalen
Quite the difficult market to get into, now that we are a little late. One reason the designer is doing his best to make sure this thing is THAT good....he has a lot of design and manufacture time invested.
I think this is a good explanation why you have taking so long time with the car. Now that you are late you want to make something as close to 100% to try to make an impact, as big as possible, on the highly competetive TC market. I'm happy with this explanation and it could even be the right thing for you to do when you have put yourselves in this situation.
We will sooner or later see if the new car is something special or not.

But once this car is out I still hope to see a little bit of development. I don't mean a new version after 1 year like Xray style but maybe some new or improved optional parts every now and then because the technical development should go forward all the time on a racing car.

Last edited by moonman; 01-05-2007 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 01-05-2007, 03:03 PM   #1315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonman
But once this car is out I still hope to see a little bit of development. I don't mean a new version after 1 year like Xray style but maybe some new or improved optional parts every now and then because the technical development should go forward all the time on a racing car.
I think that's a good point. On the TC4 for example I think there's a lot of people who feel the steering is a weak link. Unless you put in a lot of work there's loads of slop in it. It would have been nice to see some development upgrades offered over the time the car was being sold to improve this. There were a few upgrades after it's release admittedly - VCS2 shock upgrade kit/ITF chassis, but not much else. Development just seemed to kind of stop from an outside point of view.

Keep up the good work on the new car. I'd definately rather wait and buy a 100% perfect car than one that's been rushed into production.

Ralph
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Old 01-05-2007, 07:36 PM   #1316
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WHO IS THE DESIGNER?

Who here is gonna buy it the second it comes in stores? And who here is gonna wait to see how it does in future races before buying it?
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Old 01-05-2007, 08:02 PM   #1317
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The schedule that I would use for releasing car kit is simple, every two years a new kit and in between an update.
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Old 01-05-2007, 09:06 PM   #1318
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which drivers are running the new car at the novak race?
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Old 01-05-2007, 09:32 PM   #1319
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I am sure I will miss a few, but I believe

Bob Stelleflue Stock Foam
Brian Jucha 19 Turn and Mod
Eric Desrosiers 19 Turn and Mod
Tim Heiser Stock Foam and 19 Turn
Walt Henderson 19 Turn and Mod
Rick Hohwart 19 Turn and Mod

The car looks very polished
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Old 01-05-2007, 10:25 PM   #1320
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Thanks doug! Hey see if you can hook us up with some pictures of it. I saw it in vegas but I want to see it with production parts.

Corey
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