187LikesTLR SCTE 3.0 Thread
11-01-2016, 09:36 PM
#601
Lol what a funny coincidence...
You: "I'm having all these terrible problems with my new kit"
Frank: "Those issues aren't valid, mine aren't that way mine work perfect must be anecdotal user error"
3rd party: Strolls in "Anyone ever see this broken insert that looks exactly like the hinge pin was too short and pulled out even on 0 settings with no aggressive angle."
You: "I'm having all these terrible problems with my new kit"
Frank: "Those issues aren't valid, mine aren't that way mine work perfect must be anecdotal user error"
3rd party: Strolls in "Anyone ever see this broken insert that looks exactly like the hinge pin was too short and pulled out even on 0 settings with no aggressive angle."
and will keep trying to help even when getting personally attacked.
11-01-2016, 11:26 PM
#602
Tech Master
iTrader: (66)
Hi - I do have your springs, and I haven't been able to take a look at them yet. Not because it isn't important, but I've just got a LOT of other important stuff I'm working on right now, most of which isn't public 
.
Hi Frank, I understand. Respectfully, I know you are working on multiple platforms and new ones
I really don't think this vehicle has as many 'problems' as you're experiencing. Springs settle, but there are many other factors that greatly affect ride height, most especially stiction in the shocks. Unless you are testing, and rechecking the ride height with brand new x-rings after each run, then I would expect the ride height to change some over time. I've run these shocks as produced in the kit for over a year, and never had issues maintaining ride height. I do run on indoor clay tracks mostly, so the 'stiction' issue will be more controlled or limited.
Yes Sir, I race on an outdoor track that demands high maintenance. One 30ft triple and lots of fast hard turns. That’s why the hinge pins and shocks have been cleaned every 5 runs to ensure this didn’t change ride height or exaggerate my spring problem. Still had to crank more preload on the springs after every run. I run some super thin balloons on these shocks as well. They keep most dirt off the shafts and out of the seals, but they don’t touch the shafts.
The 22 shocks without springs are some of the best shocks I have ever used in my 29 years of RC racing. Not a fan of the E clips, but they work. As for the springs, bad. Maybe not as bad as the Walmart units without oil.
I think these issues are important to make the truck completely worthy of being the top of the class and as perfect as it can be. I do understand that you or others might think these issues are not worth your time. IMO, when racing every detail matters if you want to win or if you just want to maximize performance and enjoyment of the truck.
The manual actually has the correct part number for the spring cups, whether they are standard or +4mm, but it does have +4mm marked under the part number. The first batch of kits were miss packed and should have had 4pcs of +4mm spring cups. I've said this before and referred people to product support, who is also aware of it. I'm not sure what else I can do to help with this
I’m sorry, there is a mistake on the bottom right side of page 40. Look at the part number under the rear spring cup. It shows TLR231021, that’s for Team Losi Racing 22-4 Center & Rear Belt Cover Set. https://www.amainhobbies.com/team-lo...231021/p268634
I didn’t bother checking the entire manual. I was helping a new guy figure out his missing spring cups. He was going to ask for this part number to get rear +4 spring cups. There might be other issues or this may be the only one.
As for the kits being 'mislabelled', I've built two kits myself, and they were perfect to the screw. I think maybe you're assuming that Bag A1 should only match step A-1 in the manual? This isn't the case. Within Bag A, you have sub bags A1, A2, etc. Open A1, build steps A-1 to A-# (4, 5, 6, etc.), then when you've exhausted parts, you open A2 and start on the next step. Same goes for Bags B, C, D, etc.
As for the chassis brace holes, those are very close. With a molded part that size, it is almost impossible to be 'exact', but those parts fit fine without issue in performance or durability.
Same new guy was missing parts. He found them a few bags later in an entirely different stage of the build. He also could not install the chassis braces. Buggered up the screws bad. Holes were off about 2.5mm. I was able to use new screws and by leaving them all loose, I started pulling it down a little at a time. Lack of build experience on his part, but he did struggle hard for a long time. I know once installed they may never be taken off again. This is a much improved designed, better than the rod ends on the 2.0 truck.
Material on the front bumper mount, I'm not even sure about what you're referring to here. Shock stand offs, I've seen a few break when tightening down, but not while running. We're looking into this. I've run the shock mounting screws since I've built my kit without any issues, so I'm not sure on this one where your issue is coming from?
Yes, the butter soft bumper tab. I should have sent that with the springs. The tab that bolts to front shock tower is too soft. It’s the tab that provides a place to attach the top of the front bumper to the truck. It is the smallest part that can be seen in the picture here: https://www.amainhobbies.com/losi-fr...sb2421/p197807
I would pay someone to make this part out of aluminum or hard plastic/nylon for my personal use. I used an old one from the V1 or 2.0 truck, still not ideal because you can’t snug up the shock tower like it should be IMO. The one in my 3.0 kit was so soft I could pinch it into with my fingernail.
The front shock lower mounting screws are too short. LOSA6286 5-40 x 5/8” is the same screw used here since the V1 truck. The 3.0 front A arms are about 3mm thicker in front of the shock, so we lost 3mm of thread holding power here. After I noticed the right front had backed out slightly on my truck I installed a longer screw to utilize all of the threads available behind the shock. Wish the truck included reverse thread screws for right front and left rear shock bottoms as this has always been a common problem after they get some time on them.
Instructions, I run the ring and pinion front and rear with no shims, and no issues. I run a lot of motor and I'm super punched, landing on throttle, full throttle to full brake, etc., and I've not had any issues with gears either. If you want to shim the ring and pinion, those spacers are provided, but they aren't really needed, hence why they aren't covered explicitly in the instructions. As for the 0 deg and 3 deg plate, that's covered in step D-6 on page 27.
Shimming ring and pinion…. I have noticed the new gears require shims more than the older style. I have the new Ring and Pinion in both my trucks and each required 2-3 shims. Without the shims my gear mesh is only about 3/4s of the ring gear teeth. Also, the softer plastic in these gear boxes allow some flex. Without proper gear mesh it will skip and break teeth at some point. The different design of the rear diff case on the SCTE trucks could really benefit from a dedicated video showing how to shim them properly.
I see the info about installing the 3 degree plate. There needs to be some guidance here for new users. A video on track with both options explained would be great. That would help new users and experienced guys understand how it changes the handling. If that already exist please share.
Diff screws, I use a power driver on, and I've not stripped a head on those. I think it just comes down to using quality drivers, especially MIP.
I had one loose fitting screw on my hex bit. The current diff screws are the best we have seen in any version of the truck. I can confirm the hex bit driver does fit the diff screws better than a wrench. However, the new guy was using an allen wrench or hex wrench and he was destine to have problems here. Gave up eventually after several rounded out screws and I can relate. There is a simple fix, use 2mm hex head screws. I used them on V1 and 2.0 for years and never had issue. Just something that would help the new builders and something the old dogs can appreciate.
Rear hinge pins have to be a certain length to fit in all configurations of toe and anti-squat. If you run 3 deg of anti-squat and 4 deg of toe, and set the hinge pin to be that length, then when you run 1 deg of anti-squat and 2 deg of toe, the pin braces can't even touch off the transmission boxes because the pins are too long. We haven't had issues at all during testing breaking any parts associated with the rear hinge pin length. On the 1.0 and 2.0s, I always had to shorten the pins for proper assembly, and now it is fixed for the 3.0
Well, I checked my truck again. I can’t find a combo of pills that the longer 59mm pin doesn’t work with. If the pins are too short you can see the results from blomonski in post #592 today.
The rear arms can be long depending no the toe and anti-squat setting. This was an existing part that we didn't go back and change to make this fit 100% perfect, but it's a relatively straight forward fix here. I can do a video if that'll help you out. Let me know.
Once you shave the a arms for clearance you can see the amount of movement allowed by the 58mm pins being all the way forward or all the way back. Its enough to make most people replace inserts/pills or the a arm trying to fix the slop.
I think the SCTE 3.0 is the best 4wd SCT you can buy off the shelf. I think it performs the best, is the easiest to drive, the fastest, and the most durable. Is every single part 100% perfect in everyway... I wouldn't say that. But I've raced, built, and tested a TON of RC cars over the years, and I haven't found a perfect vehicle yet.
I felt that way about 2 months ago. Best available. I’m trying to feel that way again, but the spring issue 3 times has wore me down some. I have often said something close to your last statement for years concerning cars, motorcycles and other rigs. “There is something wrong with all of them. Buy the one that has problems you are willing to deal with.” The 3.0 has few issues and I have defended that several times. The biggest issue for me is springs. It needs to be address for everyone. I won’t wait though. I will find springs that work or swap back to 2.0 suspension.
Very Respectfully, with everything identified here is there something else you can do? I hope so because I still love my Losi trucks!
.Hi Frank, I understand. Respectfully, I know you are working on multiple platforms and new ones
I really don't think this vehicle has as many 'problems' as you're experiencing. Springs settle, but there are many other factors that greatly affect ride height, most especially stiction in the shocks. Unless you are testing, and rechecking the ride height with brand new x-rings after each run, then I would expect the ride height to change some over time. I've run these shocks as produced in the kit for over a year, and never had issues maintaining ride height. I do run on indoor clay tracks mostly, so the 'stiction' issue will be more controlled or limited.
Yes Sir, I race on an outdoor track that demands high maintenance. One 30ft triple and lots of fast hard turns. That’s why the hinge pins and shocks have been cleaned every 5 runs to ensure this didn’t change ride height or exaggerate my spring problem. Still had to crank more preload on the springs after every run. I run some super thin balloons on these shocks as well. They keep most dirt off the shafts and out of the seals, but they don’t touch the shafts.
The 22 shocks without springs are some of the best shocks I have ever used in my 29 years of RC racing. Not a fan of the E clips, but they work. As for the springs, bad. Maybe not as bad as the Walmart units without oil.
I think these issues are important to make the truck completely worthy of being the top of the class and as perfect as it can be. I do understand that you or others might think these issues are not worth your time. IMO, when racing every detail matters if you want to win or if you just want to maximize performance and enjoyment of the truck.
The manual actually has the correct part number for the spring cups, whether they are standard or +4mm, but it does have +4mm marked under the part number. The first batch of kits were miss packed and should have had 4pcs of +4mm spring cups. I've said this before and referred people to product support, who is also aware of it. I'm not sure what else I can do to help with this
I’m sorry, there is a mistake on the bottom right side of page 40. Look at the part number under the rear spring cup. It shows TLR231021, that’s for Team Losi Racing 22-4 Center & Rear Belt Cover Set. https://www.amainhobbies.com/team-lo...231021/p268634
I didn’t bother checking the entire manual. I was helping a new guy figure out his missing spring cups. He was going to ask for this part number to get rear +4 spring cups. There might be other issues or this may be the only one.
As for the kits being 'mislabelled', I've built two kits myself, and they were perfect to the screw. I think maybe you're assuming that Bag A1 should only match step A-1 in the manual? This isn't the case. Within Bag A, you have sub bags A1, A2, etc. Open A1, build steps A-1 to A-# (4, 5, 6, etc.), then when you've exhausted parts, you open A2 and start on the next step. Same goes for Bags B, C, D, etc.
As for the chassis brace holes, those are very close. With a molded part that size, it is almost impossible to be 'exact', but those parts fit fine without issue in performance or durability.
Same new guy was missing parts. He found them a few bags later in an entirely different stage of the build. He also could not install the chassis braces. Buggered up the screws bad. Holes were off about 2.5mm. I was able to use new screws and by leaving them all loose, I started pulling it down a little at a time. Lack of build experience on his part, but he did struggle hard for a long time. I know once installed they may never be taken off again. This is a much improved designed, better than the rod ends on the 2.0 truck.
Material on the front bumper mount, I'm not even sure about what you're referring to here. Shock stand offs, I've seen a few break when tightening down, but not while running. We're looking into this. I've run the shock mounting screws since I've built my kit without any issues, so I'm not sure on this one where your issue is coming from?
Yes, the butter soft bumper tab. I should have sent that with the springs. The tab that bolts to front shock tower is too soft. It’s the tab that provides a place to attach the top of the front bumper to the truck. It is the smallest part that can be seen in the picture here: https://www.amainhobbies.com/losi-fr...sb2421/p197807
I would pay someone to make this part out of aluminum or hard plastic/nylon for my personal use. I used an old one from the V1 or 2.0 truck, still not ideal because you can’t snug up the shock tower like it should be IMO. The one in my 3.0 kit was so soft I could pinch it into with my fingernail.
The front shock lower mounting screws are too short. LOSA6286 5-40 x 5/8” is the same screw used here since the V1 truck. The 3.0 front A arms are about 3mm thicker in front of the shock, so we lost 3mm of thread holding power here. After I noticed the right front had backed out slightly on my truck I installed a longer screw to utilize all of the threads available behind the shock. Wish the truck included reverse thread screws for right front and left rear shock bottoms as this has always been a common problem after they get some time on them.
Instructions, I run the ring and pinion front and rear with no shims, and no issues. I run a lot of motor and I'm super punched, landing on throttle, full throttle to full brake, etc., and I've not had any issues with gears either. If you want to shim the ring and pinion, those spacers are provided, but they aren't really needed, hence why they aren't covered explicitly in the instructions. As for the 0 deg and 3 deg plate, that's covered in step D-6 on page 27.
Shimming ring and pinion…. I have noticed the new gears require shims more than the older style. I have the new Ring and Pinion in both my trucks and each required 2-3 shims. Without the shims my gear mesh is only about 3/4s of the ring gear teeth. Also, the softer plastic in these gear boxes allow some flex. Without proper gear mesh it will skip and break teeth at some point. The different design of the rear diff case on the SCTE trucks could really benefit from a dedicated video showing how to shim them properly.
I see the info about installing the 3 degree plate. There needs to be some guidance here for new users. A video on track with both options explained would be great. That would help new users and experienced guys understand how it changes the handling. If that already exist please share.
Diff screws, I use a power driver on, and I've not stripped a head on those. I think it just comes down to using quality drivers, especially MIP.
I had one loose fitting screw on my hex bit. The current diff screws are the best we have seen in any version of the truck. I can confirm the hex bit driver does fit the diff screws better than a wrench. However, the new guy was using an allen wrench or hex wrench and he was destine to have problems here. Gave up eventually after several rounded out screws and I can relate. There is a simple fix, use 2mm hex head screws. I used them on V1 and 2.0 for years and never had issue. Just something that would help the new builders and something the old dogs can appreciate.
Rear hinge pins have to be a certain length to fit in all configurations of toe and anti-squat. If you run 3 deg of anti-squat and 4 deg of toe, and set the hinge pin to be that length, then when you run 1 deg of anti-squat and 2 deg of toe, the pin braces can't even touch off the transmission boxes because the pins are too long. We haven't had issues at all during testing breaking any parts associated with the rear hinge pin length. On the 1.0 and 2.0s, I always had to shorten the pins for proper assembly, and now it is fixed for the 3.0
Well, I checked my truck again. I can’t find a combo of pills that the longer 59mm pin doesn’t work with. If the pins are too short you can see the results from blomonski in post #592 today.
The rear arms can be long depending no the toe and anti-squat setting. This was an existing part that we didn't go back and change to make this fit 100% perfect, but it's a relatively straight forward fix here. I can do a video if that'll help you out. Let me know.
Once you shave the a arms for clearance you can see the amount of movement allowed by the 58mm pins being all the way forward or all the way back. Its enough to make most people replace inserts/pills or the a arm trying to fix the slop.
I think the SCTE 3.0 is the best 4wd SCT you can buy off the shelf. I think it performs the best, is the easiest to drive, the fastest, and the most durable. Is every single part 100% perfect in everyway... I wouldn't say that. But I've raced, built, and tested a TON of RC cars over the years, and I haven't found a perfect vehicle yet.
I felt that way about 2 months ago. Best available. I’m trying to feel that way again, but the spring issue 3 times has wore me down some. I have often said something close to your last statement for years concerning cars, motorcycles and other rigs. “There is something wrong with all of them. Buy the one that has problems you are willing to deal with.” The 3.0 has few issues and I have defended that several times. The biggest issue for me is springs. It needs to be address for everyone. I won’t wait though. I will find springs that work or swap back to 2.0 suspension.
Very Respectfully, with everything identified here is there something else you can do? I hope so because I still love my Losi trucks!
11-01-2016, 11:33 PM
#603
Tech Master
iTrader: (66)
Frank, I want my post to help make the truck better. To help the end user and in this case to help you guy understand what we are seeing and experiencing in the field. No bashing on you or the brand. Please don't take any of it the wrong way. We appreciate you guys being here. Yes you are putting yourself out there. That says a lot about you in a good way.
11-02-2016, 10:40 AM
#604
Tech Adept
got to run my 3.0 truck some more this past weekend. i ran stock set up with the
straight motor plate the +4 shock caps, new purple springs up front and new red
springs in the rear. the truck felt really good on my outdoor blowout track. my servo blow out so i was not able to run it any more that day.
this is the 4x4 truck to own. i bought this truck to race indoors. this truck will be good
indoors or outdoors. it's very easy to drive and it just feels good and fast on the track.
other then playing with shock springs this thing is good to go.
90% of the guys that run tekno's corr truck at my outdoor track have sold them or traded them in for losi's because they can't get them around the outdoor track.
straight motor plate the +4 shock caps, new purple springs up front and new red
springs in the rear. the truck felt really good on my outdoor blowout track. my servo blow out so i was not able to run it any more that day.
this is the 4x4 truck to own. i bought this truck to race indoors. this truck will be good
indoors or outdoors. it's very easy to drive and it just feels good and fast on the track.
other then playing with shock springs this thing is good to go.
90% of the guys that run tekno's corr truck at my outdoor track have sold them or traded them in for losi's because they can't get them around the outdoor track.
11-02-2016, 11:30 AM
#605
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (15)
Don't get your nickers in a twist though huh - we appreciate the developers being active on the site. That doesn't mean we have to ignore truths or walk on egg shells.
Also, you being on here is practically part of your job description at this point - it helps your brand identity as much as it does the user.
Just sayin...anywho moving on...
11-02-2016, 11:56 AM
#606
Tech Adept
got to run my 3.0 truck some more this past weekend. i ran stock set up with the
straight motor plate the +4 shock caps, new purple springs up front and new red
springs in the rear. the truck felt really good on my outdoor blowout track. my servo blow out so i was not able to run it any more that day.
this is the 4x4 truck to own. i bought this truck to race indoors. this truck will be good
indoors or outdoors. it's very easy to drive and it just feels good and fast on the track.
other then playing with shock springs this thing is good to go.
90% of the guys that run tekno's corr truck at my outdoor track have sold them or traded them in for losi's because they can't get them around the outdoor track.
straight motor plate the +4 shock caps, new purple springs up front and new red
springs in the rear. the truck felt really good on my outdoor blowout track. my servo blow out so i was not able to run it any more that day.
this is the 4x4 truck to own. i bought this truck to race indoors. this truck will be good
indoors or outdoors. it's very easy to drive and it just feels good and fast on the track.
other then playing with shock springs this thing is good to go.
90% of the guys that run tekno's corr truck at my outdoor track have sold them or traded them in for losi's because they can't get them around the outdoor track.
battery holders as fare forward as you can go.
11-02-2016, 10:41 PM
#609
Anyone know if any of the parts are the same as the 4.0 Nitro Car. I run mostly Nitro the TLR 4.0 and I am considering getting either the Losi or the Tekno Short Course. There does seem to be a lot more Teknos for sale at a good price but if any of the TLR 3.0 SCTE parts are interchangeable with my Nitro car that may be my deciding factor.
Thanks
Thanks
11-03-2016, 04:43 AM
#611
if you dont like something, send a pm and resolve the issue....
i'm sure if enough folk have the same problem, frank would post it and come up with a solution..you should be lucky that Frank takes time out of his busy day to reply to questions...he's a problem solver and thats a rare trait these days in an employee,.....he could work at my company anytime.....
11-03-2016, 05:18 AM
#612
that kind of stuff keeps guys like Frank off the threads.....
if you dont like something, send a pm and resolve the issue....
i'm sure if enough folk have the same problem, frank would post it and come up with a solution..you should be lucky that Frank takes time out of his busy day to reply to questions...he's a problem solver and thats a rare trait these days in an employee,.....he could work at my company anytime.....
if you dont like something, send a pm and resolve the issue....
i'm sure if enough folk have the same problem, frank would post it and come up with a solution..you should be lucky that Frank takes time out of his busy day to reply to questions...he's a problem solver and thats a rare trait these days in an employee,.....he could work at my company anytime.....
11-03-2016, 07:57 AM
#613
Tech Master
iTrader: (66)
Anyone know if any of the parts are the same as the 4.0 Nitro Car. I run mostly Nitro the TLR 4.0 and I am considering getting either the Losi or the Tekno Short Course. There does seem to be a lot more Teknos for sale at a good price but if any of the TLR 3.0 SCTE parts are interchangeable with my Nitro car that may be my deciding factor.
Thanks
Thanks
that kind of stuff keeps guys like Frank off the threads.....
if you dont like something, send a pm and resolve the issue....
i'm sure if enough folk have the same problem, frank would post it and come up with a solution..you should be lucky that Frank takes time out of his busy day to reply to questions...he's a problem solver and thats a rare trait these days in an employee,.....he could work at my company anytime.....
if you dont like something, send a pm and resolve the issue....
i'm sure if enough folk have the same problem, frank would post it and come up with a solution..you should be lucky that Frank takes time out of his busy day to reply to questions...he's a problem solver and thats a rare trait these days in an employee,.....he could work at my company anytime.....
I thought it was funny at first. Just one of those things that might go either way depending on mood of the day. We are lucky to have guys like Frank and Casper sharing info here.
