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Here are some good build tips and notes from b1narych0ice (thank you):

Specific build step comments/warnings, including areas I replaced stock parts -- Think of this as a FAQ that answers questions I had from other builders about each step:

A-3: You can instead use TLR Aluminum Servo Mount here.
A-5: Be sure to get the shorter screw in the correct hole.
A-6: Use a 76 or 78T spur if you are running a 13.5T-21.5T motor instead of the 84 in the kit! and...
A-6: The plastic washer between the pulley and the thrust assembly should be oriented so that the flat side goes toward the pulley, and the side with the ring goes towards the thrust assembly's metal washer. Diagram in instructions is correct, you just can't see that this washer isn't flat on both sides from the illustration.
A-7: Be sure the nut holding the Full-Time 4WD assembly is nice and tight, I have seen it get loose in the 1.0 car!
A-9: Put the gears on the jackshaft before the c-clips, so that you don't have to deal with getting the c-clips off to put the gears on

B-2: It seems to be possible to push the outdrives on so tight that they bind when spun, be sure to ensure that they spin freely as the manual notes.
B-7: You're screwing the 1.3mm screws into metal, don't crank so hard you strip the heads on the screws. While this is metal-on-metal, the manual doesn't call for loctite here.
B-8: The rear diff has fewer/bigger teeth, the front diff has more/smaller teeth.
C-3/C-4: TLR Aluminum Bellcranks and Exotek steering rack can be used here to increase durability/reduce steering slop
C-8: TLR Aluminum A/B Horn can be used to increase durability/reduce steering slop.
D-2: Don't worry about the kingpins sticking out the front even when the nut is tight, the bumper will push them in and keep them there.
D-5: Shock tower screws were the tightest plastic part on my kit, look from the side when tightening down the tower at the gap between the tower and the front bulkhead, tighten until this gap is closed.
D-6/D-7: Don't mix up the CVA pins and the hex pins, should be easy because hex pins are black and CVA pins are silver.
D-8/D-9: Use a toothpick to get threadlock in the metal block instead of applying it to the shoulder bolt, so that you don't get it between the plastic spindle and the metal block.
E-1/E-2: Don't mix up the 10mm pins for the rear hexes with the 11mm pins for the rear CVAs! They are packaged together and both silver, so it's easy to think you just have 4 pins that are the same!
G-1: No need to install the post on the right side if you are running a shorty and use velcro to attach the body to the mud guards. You can move the right post up or down a little so that it snugly fits your shorty battery.
G-2: Aluminum Servo Horn can be used here.
G-4: Adjust the length of the link and the servo horn position so that both the servo horn and the horn on the bellcranks are parallel with each other, and perpendicular with the link.

Hope this helps some of you that are putting your kits together, and thanks to Frank and the TLR crew for a solid kit!

----------------------
Driveshaft Update from Frank - I've reviewed some parts today from stock. The 'issue' part is definitely the rear CVA driveshaft bone. The pin slot is not 90* to the bore for the barrel. We are working to get good parts made and here for CS use ASAP.

Some of the parts I checked were not 100% free, but definitely run-able. Keep in mind that the driveshafts should wear in fairly well, and quickly (within a few packs). If you have a 22-4 2.0 and are experiencing issues with the driveshafts, we won't have good replacements for probably a couple of weeks (no definitive timeline yet), so I would recommend running them on track for 1-2 packs, then rechecking. I think most will free up well.

I am sorry that we are having an issue. Everything was great during samples until production, but we'll make sure to get it right, and make it right for those with the bad parts.
-------------------

What is the proper level for the diffs...i am used to building 8th scale diffs, i would assume its the same?
Just under level. You need some room for the output gear that is in the cap.

----------------------
Frank can u explain what is the difference between the a and b horn, TLR331018?
It isn't the horn, it is the ackermann setting. B will have less off power, better mid corner steering. A will have more off power steering, less mid corner.

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Old 06-08-2016, 07:14 PM   #136
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I had the same issue no fix yet. Please post solution if you find one
Local had this issue - pick up a set of axles and just replaced the burred parts. I'm sure with a call to horizon they would send you a new set also!
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:10 PM   #137
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Got the kit built yesterday and a full day tuning at the track today, lots to go over so I'm going to keep this first post to stuff related to the build, and then move on to stuff driving/tuning in the next post tomorrow!

There were some other people at the track building their kits at the same time I was, so when I refer to "the crowd" these are the people I'm referring to, one was a fellow 22-4 1.0 owner, two had the HB D413, and a couple were long time AE guys building their first Losi kits (B44.3 owners).

Overall build/kit quality is absolutely stellar, everything fit together nicely and none of the crowd were missing any parts. A couple of first-time TLR builders agreed that it was probably the nicest build they have ever done (both with 10+ years in RC).

Of course, there will always be complaints so here's my list, I would consider everything but the first item to be very small gripes:
  • Two of "the crowd" had burring and malformed pin holes on their rear axles, both ended up just buying new axles from the shop. Just a manufacturing defect, but it seems common enough to mention so that Horizon/Frank can look in to it.
  • Every other TLR vehicle I've bought came with 2 sets of wheels, one in white and one in yellow. Kit includes only 1 set of yellow wheels, which is a downer since I run white! Very minor issue.
  • No 78 or 76T spur included
  • No Velcro for body included as an alternative to clips -- nobody likes body clips.
  • Horizon Site lists 22-4 Titanium Turnbuckle Set (TLR334013) as compatible with the 2.0 car, but the lengths of the turnbuckles are actually not the same -- the 1.0 car had 50mm rear links, the new car uses 55mm rear links. I'm pretty sure the 50mm links would work for the shorter link positions in the rear anyway (I have almost no thread showing on my turnbuckles with the stock camber link position).
  • Horizon site lists angled ball cups in the 22-4 2.0 parts list, but these aren't actually used on the car (TLR231029)

On to the standout positives:
  • The diffs are an engineering masterpiece, I cannot say enough good things about how easy these were to build and how well they perform. I was worried about the tiny 1.3mm hex screws that seal the halves together until I realized that unlike 1/8 scale gear diffs, these screws were going into metal -- it was very easy to get them nice and tight and they don't seem to be leaking at all.
  • Quality of the molds for the belt covers and other plastics is top-notch, everything fit together perfectly and the suspension is nice and free without any fiddling or reaming. Spindles/Blocks were a little tight out of the box, but broke in nicely after a couple runs and the slop in the steering is absolutely minimal.
  • Solid single piece for full-time 4wd instead of the old clicker lockout assembly is a nice touch, less rotating mass and less to get loose/slop/go wrong.
  • Grooved Slipper is nice, less rotating mass is always good.
  • Manual has a listing for 13.5 gearing (1.0 did not), though I think it's too conservative -- 78/27 while most of our locals run 76/25.

Specific build step comments/warnings, including areas I replaced stock parts -- Think of this as a FAQ that answers questions I had from other builders about each step:

A-3: You can instead use TLR Aluminum Servo Mount here.
A-5: Be sure to get the shorter screw in the correct hole.
A-6: Use a 76 or 78T spur if you are running a 13.5T-21.5T motor instead of the 84 in the kit! and...
A-6: The plastic washer between the pulley and the thrust assembly should be oriented so that the flat side goes toward the pulley, and the side with the ring goes towards the thrust assembly's metal washer. Diagram in instructions is correct, you just can't see that this washer isn't flat on both sides from the illustration.
A-7: Be sure the nut holding the Full-Time 4WD assembly is nice and tight, I have seen it get loose in the 1.0 car!
A-9: Put the gears on the jackshaft before the c-clips, so that you don't have to deal with getting the c-clips off to put the gears on

B-2: It seems to be possible to push the outdrives on so tight that they bind when spun, be sure to ensure that they spin freely as the manual notes.
B-7: You're screwing the 1.3mm screws into metal, don't crank so hard you strip the heads on the screws. While this is metal-on-metal, the manual doesn't call for loctite here.
B-8: The rear diff has fewer/bigger teeth, the front diff has more/smaller teeth.
C-3/C-4: TLR Aluminum Bellcranks and Exotek steering rack can be used here to increase durability/reduce steering slop
C-8: TLR Aluminum A/B Horn can be used to increase durability/reduce steering slop.
D-2: Don't worry about the kingpins sticking out the front even when the nut is tight, the bumper will push them in and keep them there.
D-5: Shock tower screws were the tightest plastic part on my kit, look from the side when tightening down the tower at the gap between the tower and the front bulkhead, tighten until this gap is closed.
D-6/D-7: Don't mix up the CVA pins and the hex pins, should be easy because hex pins are black and CVA pins are silver.
D-8/D-9: Use a toothpick to get threadlock in the metal block instead of applying it to the shoulder bolt, so that you don't get it between the plastic spindle and the metal block.
E-1/E-2: Don't mix up the 10mm pins for the rear hexes with the 11mm pins for the rear CVAs! They are packaged together and both silver, so it's easy to think you just have 4 pins that are the same!
G-1: No need to install the post on the right side if you are running a shorty and use velcro to attach the body to the mud guards. You can move the right post up or down a little so that it snugly fits your shorty battery.
G-2: Aluminum Servo Horn can be used here.
G-4: Adjust the length of the link and the servo horn position so that both the servo horn and the horn on the bellcranks are parallel with each other, and perpendicular with the link.

Hope this helps some of you that are putting your kits together, and thanks to Frank and the TLR crew for a solid kit!
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:52 PM   #138
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b1..you're the man! thx

oohhh by the way.. did u go with diff fluid included in the kit?!
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Old 06-09-2016, 01:05 AM   #139
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Default Hop ups & extras.

Was gonna try my hand in some 1/10 scale action and wondering what I would need for hop ups and extra parts for the 22-4 2.0 and 22-3.0. And and all help please. The track will be tnt in shreaveport la. Hear they run slicks 90% of the time
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Old 06-09-2016, 01:36 AM   #140
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Was gonna try my hand in some 1/10 scale action and wondering what I would need for hop ups and extra parts for the 22-4 2.0 and 22-3.0. And and all help please. The track will be tnt in shreaveport la. Hear they run slicks 90% of the time
The 22-4 2.0 comes very well equipped out of the box with all the options most of the team has been using for a while. One nice option to have, not necessary though, is the A/B servo horn (TLR331018). It makes adjusting ackerman just a little easier.

For the 22 3.0 it also comes really well equipped out of the box and ready to go. If running stock the Direct Drive System is a great stock option, but even then for both mod and stock the car is great out of the box.
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Old 06-09-2016, 06:02 AM   #141
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Has anyone else had trouble with the CVD barrel cross pin hole being not perpendicular to the barrel axis? When I tighten the CVD set screw I can see the cross pin setting at an angle which then locks up the CVD completely. I tried deburring the CVD ball end and cross pin slots but it made no difference.
Wow. Thank you for posting this. I thought I was losing my mind. Spent an hour last night trying to figure out what was wrong with one of my rear axles binding up, and like you said, it was only after tightening the screw. I literally took it apart 20 times, and could not see anything apparent that would be causing this issue.

Eventually after putting it all together one last time, the issue resolved itself and it spins freely now.
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Old 06-09-2016, 06:42 AM   #142
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Has anyone else had trouble with the CVD barrel cross pin hole being not perpendicular to the barrel axis? When I tighten the CVD set screw I can see the cross pin setting at an angle which then locks up the CVD completely. I tried deburring the CVD ball end and cross pin slots but it made no difference.
There is an issue with the rear CVD's. Frank Root is in the know and looking into it. In the mean time it does seem that the barrel is the issue. On my kit I simply replaced the barrel along with the pin and it freed my CVD up. If you guys are in a rush part #TLR2972 should be a quick and easy fix to the solution without having to go buy an extra set of CVD like some have mentioned. I'm sure if you were to get a hold of Horizon they'd more than glad to assist as well.
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Old 06-09-2016, 07:18 AM   #143
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Started building mine last night and ran into a snag with one of my diffs. I built them at the same time trying to stay consistent and one is complete butter and the other seems to not align internally. Rebuilt it three times with no success so far, hoping its user error... :-)

Love the way the car has gone together otherwise and cant wait to get it on the track.
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Old 06-09-2016, 07:52 AM   #144
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b1..you're the man! thx

oohhh by the way.. did u go with diff fluid included in the kit?!
Yep, I was a little worried that I'd have trouble getting the car to rotate with such thick oil, but I think it's actually a pretty perfect starting point for indoor hard-packed. When turning the diffs by hand with the wheels on, it feels like a medium-tightness ball diff on the 1.0. Some guys at the track ran their 1.0 diffs a little looser than this, some ran them a little tighter.

I would start with the kit 50k in the diffs, and pick up bottles of 30k and 80k fluid so that you have the option to go up or down.
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Old 06-09-2016, 09:16 AM   #145
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Wow. Thank you for posting this. I thought I was losing my mind. Spent an hour last night trying to figure out what was wrong with one of my rear axles binding up, and like you said, it was only after tightening the screw. I literally took it apart 20 times, and could not see anything apparent that would be causing this issue.

Eventually after putting it all together one last time, the issue resolved itself and it spins freely now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Pink View Post
There is an issue with the rear CVD's. Frank Root is in the know and looking into it. In the mean time it does seem that the barrel is the issue. On my kit I simply replaced the barrel along with the pin and it freed my CVD up. If you guys are in a rush part #TLR2972 should be a quick and easy fix to the solution without having to go buy an extra set of CVD like some have mentioned. I'm sure if you were to get a hold of Horizon they'd more than glad to assist as well.
We've just gotten first word of this issue late last night, we are working on it.

I wouldn't call in to product support yet, as they won't know of a solution yet, and it's possible that the replacement parts in stock have the same issue(s).

Sorry about this . All I know is that the pre-production samples were perfect...
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Old 06-09-2016, 09:17 AM   #146
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OK, time for a tuning/first day on the track summary. Our current layout at Trackside in Milwaukee has been in for about two months and is slated for a rebuild next weekend, so I've had a lot of time in on it with the 1.0 car. Gold JC Dirt Webs, Clay AKA Chainlink, and MC Proline Micron/Electron are the popular tires, with saucing.

I started with the 2.0 stock setup, which actually isn't all that far off of the setup I had been running beforehand (Maifield Surf City). I wanted to see how the car felt out of the box, and see if I could come up with a few tuning changes that would help others who had built their cars with the stock setup.

So, let's get the big question out of the way... is it faster than the 1.0 car? Yep.
  • New car just has more forward bite, as you would expect going to a gear diff. Hard to explain, but it just felt like the car had more motor and grip.
  • For some reason, even with the same gearing as my 1.0 (76/25) my temps are down by about 20 degrees! I literally unglued all the electronics and motor from the old car and dropped them in the new car, so it's definitely improvements in the car that are helping the temps. It used to come off the track after 10 minutes at 160 on the old car with the shorty chassis, the new car is at only 140 or so after 10 minutes so I even have room to gear up or crank the timing more! I do have an HV fan taped to the chassis pointed at the motor, same way as the old car.
  • Jumps a little farther/better, mainly from the above improvements. As predictable/smooth/planted as the 1.0 was through bumps and turns, which is a good thing.
  • Stock setup is very forgiving and makes it pretty easy to keep the car right-side-up. On my 2nd ever pack through the car, I was able to do a full 10 minute practice run without rolling, piping, or otherwise having to go marshal myself... and I am no pro driver!

Stock Setup Comments
With the stock setup, it was almost impossible to make the car traction roll, and had plenty of steering. If you came into a corner too hot, you'd just start to slide mid-corner, the rear was rolling a lot more than the front of the car so you could basically do a "hockey stop" going from the straightaway into a high-speed sweeper. For a first timer in 4WD, this makes for a very forgiving and predictable car, just let of the gas when it slides and it hooks right back up without doing anything unpredictable or funny. I wouldn't hesitate to tell people to try the box setup before they start making changes to suit the way they want it to drive.

Changes and Results
The biggest changes I made to pick up time were switching to stiffer TLR LF Red rear springs (I had these on the old car, along with the same front springs as the 2.0 includes out of the box), moving the front camber links to increase front roll, dropping F/R ride height to 21/20mm, and adding 1 degree toe out. With these changes, I kept a lot of steering while making the car carry more corner speed before breaking loose.

After making the above changes I was able to bang out a 16.2, while the fastest I had ever done in the 22-4 1.0 was a 16.3. At the end of the day, this is the benchmark that people asked me about the most at the track, so if I picked up a tenth on day 1 and I have room to gear up, I think this car's future is bright
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Old 06-09-2016, 09:36 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by b1narych0ice View Post
OK, time for a tuning/first day on the track summary. Our current layout at Trackside in Milwaukee has been in for about two months and is slated for a rebuild next weekend, so I've had a lot of time in on it with the 1.0 car. Gold JC Dirt Webs, Clay AKA Chainlink, and MC Proline Micron/Electron are the popular tires, with saucing.

I started with the 2.0 stock setup, which actually isn't all that far off of the setup I had been running beforehand (Maifield Surf City). I wanted to see how the car felt out of the box, and see if I could come up with a few tuning changes that would help others who had built their cars with the stock setup.

So, let's get the big question out of the way... is it faster than the 1.0 car? Yep.
  • New car just has more forward bite, as you would expect going to a gear diff. Hard to explain, but it just felt like the car had more motor and grip.
  • For some reason, even with the same gearing as my 1.0 (76/25) my temps are down by about 20 degrees! I literally unglued all the electronics and motor from the old car and dropped them in the new car, so it's definitely improvements in the car that are helping the temps. It used to come off the track after 10 minutes at 160 on the old car with the shorty chassis, the new car is at only 140 or so after 10 minutes so I even have room to gear up or crank the timing more! I do have an HV fan taped to the chassis pointed at the motor, same way as the old car.
  • Jumps a little farther/better, mainly from the above improvements. As predictable/smooth/planted as the 1.0 was through bumps and turns, which is a good thing.
  • Stock setup is very forgiving and makes it pretty easy to keep the car right-side-up. On my 2nd ever pack through the car, I was able to do a full 10 minute practice run without rolling, piping, or otherwise having to go marshal myself... and I am no pro driver!

Stock Setup Comments
With the stock setup, it was almost impossible to make the car traction roll, and had plenty of steering. If you came into a corner too hot, you'd just start to slide mid-corner, the rear was rolling a lot more than the front of the car so you could basically do a "hockey stop" going from the straightaway into a high-speed sweeper. For a first timer in 4WD, this makes for a very forgiving and predictable car, just let of the gas when it slides and it hooks right back up without doing anything unpredictable or funny. I wouldn't hesitate to tell people to try the box setup before they start making changes to suit the way they want it to drive.

Changes and Results
The biggest changes I made to pick up time were switching to stiffer TLR LF Red rear springs (I had these on the old car, along with the same front springs as the 2.0 includes out of the box), moving the front camber links to increase front roll, dropping F/R ride height to 21/20mm, and adding 1 degree toe out. With these changes, I kept a lot of steering while making the car carry more corner speed before breaking loose.

After making the above changes I was able to bang out a 16.2, while the fastest I had ever done in the 22-4 1.0 was a 16.3. At the end of the day, this is the benchmark that people asked me about the most at the track, so if I picked up a tenth on day 1 and I have room to gear up, I think this car's future is bright
Awesome results! You can try to move the rear shocks to #2 on the rear tower, I really prefer this. Even #3 I've run quite a bit.
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Old 06-09-2016, 10:01 AM   #148
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Awesome results! You can try to move the rear shocks to #2 on the rear tower, I really prefer this. Even #3 I've run quite a bit.
Thanks Frank! I will try this out before the race this Saturday
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Old 06-09-2016, 10:50 AM   #149
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Frank u running the shocks forward or back? I drilled the holes already just haven't decided which way to start. Any thoughts on the difference?
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Old 06-09-2016, 11:18 AM   #150
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Frank u running the shocks forward or back? I drilled the holes already just haven't decided which way to start. Any thoughts on the difference?
I've got mine back right now. "More corner speed" with them in the front is the answer I am getting from the guys, nothing definitive about handling characteristics changing.
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