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Old 06-20-2016, 06:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official TLR 22-4 2.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Here are some good build tips and notes from b1narych0ice (thank you):

Specific build step comments/warnings, including areas I replaced stock parts -- Think of this as a FAQ that answers questions I had from other builders about each step:

A-3: You can instead use TLR Aluminum Servo Mount here.
A-5: Be sure to get the shorter screw in the correct hole.
A-6: Use a 76 or 78T spur if you are running a 13.5T-21.5T motor instead of the 84 in the kit! and...
A-6: The plastic washer between the pulley and the thrust assembly should be oriented so that the flat side goes toward the pulley, and the side with the ring goes towards the thrust assembly's metal washer. Diagram in instructions is correct, you just can't see that this washer isn't flat on both sides from the illustration.
A-7: Be sure the nut holding the Full-Time 4WD assembly is nice and tight, I have seen it get loose in the 1.0 car!
A-9: Put the gears on the jackshaft before the c-clips, so that you don't have to deal with getting the c-clips off to put the gears on

B-2: It seems to be possible to push the outdrives on so tight that they bind when spun, be sure to ensure that they spin freely as the manual notes.
B-7: You're screwing the 1.3mm screws into metal, don't crank so hard you strip the heads on the screws. While this is metal-on-metal, the manual doesn't call for loctite here.
B-8: The rear diff has fewer/bigger teeth, the front diff has more/smaller teeth.
C-3/C-4: TLR Aluminum Bellcranks and Exotek steering rack can be used here to increase durability/reduce steering slop
C-8: TLR Aluminum A/B Horn can be used to increase durability/reduce steering slop.
D-2: Don't worry about the kingpins sticking out the front even when the nut is tight, the bumper will push them in and keep them there.
D-5: Shock tower screws were the tightest plastic part on my kit, look from the side when tightening down the tower at the gap between the tower and the front bulkhead, tighten until this gap is closed.
D-6/D-7: Don't mix up the CVA pins and the hex pins, should be easy because hex pins are black and CVA pins are silver.
D-8/D-9: Use a toothpick to get threadlock in the metal block instead of applying it to the shoulder bolt, so that you don't get it between the plastic spindle and the metal block.
E-1/E-2: Don't mix up the 10mm pins for the rear hexes with the 11mm pins for the rear CVAs! They are packaged together and both silver, so it's easy to think you just have 4 pins that are the same!
G-1: No need to install the post on the right side if you are running a shorty and use velcro to attach the body to the mud guards. You can move the right post up or down a little so that it snugly fits your shorty battery.
G-2: Aluminum Servo Horn can be used here.
G-4: Adjust the length of the link and the servo horn position so that both the servo horn and the horn on the bellcranks are parallel with each other, and perpendicular with the link.

Hope this helps some of you that are putting your kits together, and thanks to Frank and the TLR crew for a solid kit!

----------------------
Driveshaft Update from Frank - I've reviewed some parts today from stock. The 'issue' part is definitely the rear CVA driveshaft bone. The pin slot is not 90* to the bore for the barrel. We are working to get good parts made and here for CS use ASAP.

Some of the parts I checked were not 100% free, but definitely run-able. Keep in mind that the driveshafts should wear in fairly well, and quickly (within a few packs). If you have a 22-4 2.0 and are experiencing issues with the driveshafts, we won't have good replacements for probably a couple of weeks (no definitive timeline yet), so I would recommend running them on track for 1-2 packs, then rechecking. I think most will free up well.

I am sorry that we are having an issue. Everything was great during samples until production, but we'll make sure to get it right, and make it right for those with the bad parts.
-------------------

What is the proper level for the diffs...i am used to building 8th scale diffs, i would assume its the same?
Just under level. You need some room for the output gear that is in the cap.

----------------------
Frank can u explain what is the difference between the a and b horn, TLR331018?
It isn't the horn, it is the ackermann setting. B will have less off power, better mid corner steering. A will have more off power steering, less mid corner.

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Old 07-19-2016, 09:19 PM   #331
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My take on this is no matter what you do you're never going to get all the air outta the shock. TLR's X-rings and machined internals are really good so there is not much friction, especially when brand new. With both of these factors, the shock shaft is going contract back into the shock body some. Nothing really you can do about it. The main thing is to get the rebound right in my opinion.
Even if it contracts like 80% of the way back into the shock body?
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Old 07-20-2016, 06:25 AM   #332
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Even if it contracts like 80% of the way back into the shock body?
I have been racing TLR for years it's just how they build. The shocks are just that smooth and they have little to no stiction. Build, run and enjoy.
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:07 AM   #333
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As per Jake Thayer/TLR at OCRC Raceway, 84/26.

I run it and it's fast and safe for me, 1 fan for the motor.
R1wurks 13.5 and fan taped to chassis.
84/26 is way under geared for 13.5, I'm guessing you meant 78/26? You really can't gear the car properly for 13.5 with the 84t spur, there isn't enough room to fit a big enough pinion.
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:11 AM   #334
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84/26 is way under geared for 13.5, I'm guessing you meant 78/26? You really can't gear the car properly for 13.5 with the 84t spur, there isn't enough room to fit a big enough pinion.
Jake is a pretty savvy racer, and text me the same gearing. I know we gear 28/69 in 17.5 2wd, which a lot of people will say is slow... but that's the fastest gearing for OCRC and SDRC with Schuur Speed Motors.
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:51 AM   #335
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Jake is a pretty savvy racer, and text me the same gearing. I know we gear 28/69 in 17.5 2wd, which a lot of people will say is slow... but that's the fastest gearing for OCRC and SDRC with Schuur Speed Motors.
Every motor is a little different, for "Schuur"
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Old 07-20-2016, 10:00 AM   #336
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Gearing for temps is old school. The current motors are all running quite cool. The trick here is not always gearing for top speed but corner speed. some ESC's like the Tekin have data logging that help you see where you are topping out in RPM's and help you adjust your gearing. I agree with Frank with my Tekin Gen 3 RPM 17.5 I was at his same gearing after a lot of testing in 2wd. I have not tried 13.5 4wd but it sounds like fun.
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Old 07-20-2016, 11:33 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by Frank Root View Post
Jake is a pretty savvy racer, and text me the same gearing. I know we gear 28/69 in 17.5 2wd, which a lot of people will say is slow... but that's the fastest gearing for OCRC and SDRC with Schuur Speed Motors.
I ran 78/27 at Hot Rod and my buggy was by far the fastest on the track. This is with a R1wurks 13.5 timing at 28 and a R1wurks fan beside it wired directly to the battery. I tried 84 spur at first and you can get it to work but it just creates alot of heat for the R1 motor anyway and you don't have the mid range. The rest of the car was stock even the bearings and all. The only thing I did change was the rear belt tension to C forward. It was a missle and super easy to drive. TQ and win. motor never hit above 150 in the outside heat as well.
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Old 07-20-2016, 11:41 AM   #338
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I ran 78/27 at Hot Rod and my buggy was by far the fastest on the track. This is with a R1wurks 13.5 timing at 28 and a R1wurks fan beside it wired directly to the battery. I tried 84 spur at first and you can get it to work but it just creates alot of heat for the R1 motor anyway and you don't have the mid range. The rest of the car was stock even the bearings and all. The only thing I did change was the rear belt tension to C forward. It was a missle and super easy to drive. TQ and win. motor never hit above 150 in the outside heat as well.
That's only 3 teeth different really, and your timing setting was pretty low compared to what a lot of people run (45ish), so you're actually pretty close.

It will always depend on which motor you have and how you choose to set it up.
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Old 07-20-2016, 01:18 PM   #339
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very true, I can't speak for other motors but the R1 V7 has 30 built into it like the old ballistics so technically it is 58 degrees. 84/26 is a 7.43 FDR with a 20.3 rollout, 78/27 is a 6.64 FDR with a 22.71 rollout. In stock thats a pretty big jump. I have tried 84/28 and it was ok with that motor but it when I went to the 78/26 to 27 it really felt better overall. And its alot easier to get the mesh correct, with the bigger spur it pushes the motor all the way back to the belt cover and allows no air flow.

Its all personal prefrence I guess but I did some testing the weekend before and I don't think my car could have been better. I honestly believe this car with the belts is hands down the best car for 13.5, mine was way heavier but it didn't feel that way on the track at all. And it was such a blast running the car with a 13.5, still fast just harder to overdrive the car which made for very consistant runs each and everytime.
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Old 07-20-2016, 02:17 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by kevink123 View Post
very true, I can't speak for other motors but the R1 V7 has 30 built into it like the old ballistics so technically it is 58 degrees. 84/26 is a 7.43 FDR with a 20.3 rollout, 78/27 is a 6.64 FDR with a 22.71 rollout. In stock thats a pretty big jump. I have tried 84/28 and it was ok with that motor but it when I went to the 78/26 to 27 it really felt better overall. And its alot easier to get the mesh correct, with the bigger spur it pushes the motor all the way back to the belt cover and allows no air flow.

Its all personal prefrence I guess but I did some testing the weekend before and I don't think my car could have been better. I honestly believe this car with the belts is hands down the best car for 13.5, mine was way heavier but it didn't feel that way on the track at all. And it was such a blast running the car with a 13.5, still fast just harder to overdrive the car which made for very consistant runs each and everytime.
This is consistent with what I've seen, which is why I was questioning the 84 spur in the first place -- we have a very active 13.5 4WD class here at Trackside in Milwaukee, WI and I can tell you for a fact that none of the guys that are competitive are running the 84T, it's either 76T or 78T.

Could be that our track is a little smaller, and nobody that I know of is running a Schuur (Motiv and Reedy mostly), but just like we run the 69T spur on our 17.5 2WD cars instead of trying to make it work with the bigger 78 or 84 it makes sense that the smaller spur/pinion would work better here too.

Also agree on the belt-drive making the 22-4 the king of 13.5 4WD -- a year ago it was about 2 D413's for each 22-4 on race night, now with the release of the 2.0 a lot of guys switched camps and it's more like 2 22-4s for each D413
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Old 07-20-2016, 07:29 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by Casper View Post
Gearing for temps is old school. The current motors are all running quite cool. The trick here is not always gearing for top speed but corner speed. some ESC's like the Tekin have data logging that help you see where you are topping out in RPM's and help you adjust your gearing. I agree with Frank with my Tekin Gen 3 RPM 17.5 I was at his same gearing after a lot of testing in 2wd. I have not tried 13.5 4wd but it sounds like fun.
in 2wd buggy you are at 28/69 with a tekin gen 3 rpm...how big is the track?
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Old 07-20-2016, 09:10 PM   #342
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Anyone know which tooth spur gears come with the TLR 22-4 2.0?
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Old 07-20-2016, 09:18 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by Casper View Post
Gearing for temps is old school. The current motors are all running quite cool. The trick here is not always gearing for top speed but corner speed. some ESC's like the Tekin have data logging that help you see where you are topping out in RPM's and help you adjust your gearing. I agree with Frank with my Tekin Gen 3 RPM 17.5 I was at his same gearing after a lot of testing in 2wd. I have not tried 13.5 4wd but it sounds like fun.
Sad thing is not too many people really know how to accurately use the data logger. This is the most helpful tuning tool I have ever had. Now that Tekin has the adjustable freq......it's hands down the best speedo on the market.
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Old 07-20-2016, 09:27 PM   #344
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I'm still running the 1.0 but my teammates that have the 2.0 we all ran 13.5 4wd at the Jconcepts in Chico. We were geared 78/25 &26 with Team Powers 13.5 The track isn't very big. I don't think we were under powered. Our gearing is usually the same as guys running Reedy motors and R1's. Hope this info helps
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Old 07-20-2016, 10:35 PM   #345
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I'm still running the 1.0 but my teammates that have the 2.0 we all ran 13.5 4wd at the Jconcepts in Chico. We were geared 78/25 &26 with Team Powers 13.5 The track isn't very big. I don't think we were under powered. Our gearing is usually the same as guys running Reedy motors and R1's. Hope this info helps
Everyone who was running 22-4 platforms in 13.5 wheeler looked like they didn't lack power.
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