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Team Associated B6 & B6D thread
***THE FIRST POST WILL NO LONGER BE UPDATED DUE TO THE B6.1D/B6.1 BEING RELEASED. I WILL KEEP ALL LINKS UP FOR ALL TO REFERENCE, SO IF ANY BECOME BROKEN, PLEASE PM ME. THANKS.***
B6: https://www.teamassociated.com/pictu...746x150_NT.jpg https://www.teamassociated.com/pictu...BodyOn2_md.jpg Features: Turf/Carpet/Clay configuration 3-gear laydown Stealth(TM) transmission: lower CG and reduced polar moment Gear diffential: more corner speed and forward acceleration Gull-wing front arms with wider shock tower: lower CG and increased on-power steering Ability to mount shocks on front or rear of rear arms Hard anodized aluminum pocketed chassis included. Optional weights (not included) allow weight bias tuning. Reverse bell-crank steering rack design allows more room for electronics Repositioned A plate provides maximum front end clearance One-piece steering blocks with bolt on Ackermann plate Lightweight and durable aluminum C plate and aluminum ball stud mount Updated ball cups and turnbuckles for precise adjustments and durability Adjustable battery hold-down strap allows weight bias tuning Aluminum front axle and rear hexes for less rotating mass and long-lasting durability V2 12mm "Big Bore" threaded aluminum shocks with 3mm TiN coated shafts and low friction x-rings for improved smoothness Factory Team Aluminum Shock Bushings provide stable shock mounts Heavy-duty rear axle for added strength Factory Team upgraded ball bearings Team Associated clear body and screw-mounted wing by JConcepts(TM) B6D https://www.teamassociated.com/pictu...746x150_NT.jpg https://www.teamassociated.com/pictu...6D_746x150.jpg https://www.teamassociated.com/pictu..._BodyOn_md.jpg https://www.teamassociated.com/pictu...BodyOff_md.jpg https://www.teamassociated.com/pictu...BodyOff_md.jpg Features: Clay/Hard Dirt/Loose Dirt configuration Standup 3-gear Stealth(TM) transmission: more rearward weight for increased rear traction Ball differential: more rear traction and stability Flat front arms with narrower shock tower: more responsive steering and quicker release out of corner Hard anodized aluminum pocketed chassis included. Optional weights (not included) allow weight bias tuning. Centralized motor positioning for optimum side-to-side balance Repositioned A plate provides maximum front end clearance One-piece steering blocks with bolt on Ackermann plate Lightweight and durable aluminum C plate and aluminum ball stud mount Updated ball cups and turnbuckles for precise adjustments and durability Adjustable battery hold-down strap allows weight bias tuning Aluminum front axle and rear hexes for less rotating mass and long-lasting durability V2 12mm "Big Bore" threaded aluminum shocks with 3mm TiN coated shafts and low friction x-rings for improved smoothness Factory Team Aluminum Shock Bushings provide stable shock mounts Heavy-duty rear axle for added strength Factory Team upgraded ball bearings Team Associated clear body and screw-mounted wing by JConcepts(TM) B6 Club Racer https://www.teamassociated.com/pictu...746x150_NT.jpg https://www.teamassociated.com/pictu...CR_746x150.jpg https://www.teamassociated.com/pictu...t_High2_md.jpg Features: Reedy Sonic 540 17.5 Fixed Timing motor produces maximum power output and RPM thanks to an all new stator design, pure copper magnet wire, and low-resistance collector rings. ROAR approved and meets BRCA and IFMAR specs. Reedy's Blackbox 600Z Zero Timing Sensored Brushless Competition ESC is a simple-to-use yet powerful ESC for Spec class racers. Excellent throttle and brake feel, a wide range of adjustability, and robust hardware make the Blackbox 600Z suitable for a variety of Spec racing applications. The Reedy 0712MG Metal Gear Digital Servo is race-proven and features numerous enhancements including precision metal gears for added strength and smooth operation, and an advanced microprocessor that improves vehicle control and on-track performance. Lightweight, hard-anodized aluminum chassis with centralized mass for improved handling on all track types Reverse bellcrank steering allows more room for mounting electronics Bolt-on steering block arms for increased adjustability Aluminum rear ball stud mount for added strength V2 12mm Big Bore threaded aluminum shocks with 3mm shafts and X-rings for improved smoothness 3-gear transmission for lower rotating mass and extra acceleration Lightweight aluminum top shaft Lightweight aluminum front axle with laser etching Factory Team ball bearing kit included Ball differential for more rear traction and stability JConcepts(TM) B6 clear body and wing included |
USEFUL LINKS
Instruction Manuals: B6: https://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/c...0B6_manual.pdf B6D: https://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/c...B6D_manual.pdf B6 Club Racer: https://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/c...acer-90013.pdf Recommended Titanium Screws/Screw locations (courtesy of Team Associated): Suggested Titanium screws for B6/B6D Setup Sheets: B6: https://www.teamassociated.com/cars_...anuals_setups/ B6D: https://www.teamassociated.com/cars_...anuals_setups/ http://site.petitrc.com/setup/associ...tedRC10B6.html - PetitRC's setup database Tuning with Camber Links - Long read, and a different way to tune your car, but it can make more sense for some. Razathorn's Camber Link Tuning Guide Martin Crisp's Car Tuning Guide - Onroad oriented, but very informative. Learnsetup.com - App based setup sheets. Also by Martin Crisp, $10/year subscription. Anti Squat article http://users.telenet.be/elvo/ - Great tuning guide, lots of explanations of setup and suspension theory. http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...ping_table.jpg How to set your slipper, rebuild your diff and adjust your ball diff (courtesy of Racer53): How to build your ball diff (via Team Associated's youtube channel): How to build and bleed your shocks (via Team Associated's youtube channel): How to scuff your wing: How to adjust your sway bars: How to balance your tires: Other Diff building/adjusting videos: How to Sand and Seal carbon fiber: Sanding and sealing carbon fiber Sanding and sealing carbon fiber 2 Sanding and sealing carbon fiber 3 Sanding and sealing carbon fiber 4 |
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Q: Which car should I get? A: Buy both if you can afford it. Or buy one that you think you need and wait for a used one of the other to buy at a discounted price. Much like the B5M/B5, having two cars can allow you to adjust to varying track conditions. Conversely, you can buy the laydown transmission parts so that you can change a B6D to now have a laydown transmission. See the Q&A below for the full parts list needed to change a B6D to add a laydown transmission. The other questions you have to ask yourself is: What kind of surface am I running on? Is it high bite or low bite? Carpet or dirt? Here's some perspective from AeRayls: "The only reason to buy the B6 is if you plan to run carpet or turf, that's it! For any other surface including switching back and forth between dirt/turf/carpet etc buy the B6D and any parts to convert as it'll be cheaper and easier." Here's break down from Kody Numendahl via facebook: There seems to be some confusion about which car to buy between the B6 and B6D. A lay down gear box isn't the only difference between the two kits. The B6 also comes with a gear diff and gull-wing arms/tower. I attached a photo showing some common configurations that drivers will want to run and which kit I would recommend for each. http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...-thread-b6.jpg Q: What are some good setups for medium to low-traction tracks? A: See this response from Ray Munday
Originally Posted by ray_munday
(Post 14794494)
Hi all,
Based on lots of testing and racing down here in Australia (and at the Reedy Outdoor race), I have compiled a setup guide for the B6D on these sorts of tracks. The platform is hugely adjustable and we are learning all of the time, but I hope this helps some of you running on lower grip / bumpier tracks. Any questions, hit up my help thread, send a PM or hit me up on Facebook. Setup guide pdf on this post: http://www.rctech.net/forum/10587848-post4.html Additional notes and setups on this post: http://www.rctech.net/forum/14788467-post1293.html Petitrc has compiled it here: Team Associated B6D - Ray Munday - Outdoor Setup Guide Even in French!! Team Associated B6D - Ray Munday - Guide de reglages pour pistes exterieures - Jan 2017 A: Yes, you can, but the instructions state to mount it horizontally as low as you can off of the chassis: https://i.imgur.com/OOl5sMn.png http://www.rctech.net/forum/members/...9-22-32-am.png Q: Can I mount the shocks on the front of the arm? A: Yes, however you can only do this with the laydown transmission. Q: What is the difference between shocks on the front of the tower/arm and shocks on the rear of the tower/arm? A: It changes the weight bias of the car. Shocks on the front takes weight off the rear axle, and makes the car rotate faster. This is optimal on very high bite tracks, or tracks with a lot of 180's. Shocks on the rear is more common in the US, as it provides more rear bite and also makes the car react slower. Q: Do I need to sand and glue the carbon fiber shock towers? A: You don't have to, but it's highly recommended. See the useful links section on how to do it. Q: Can I use my B5 servo mounts in the B6? A: Yes! Be aware that the mount will push the servo forward a few mm, but it will work. Q: Can I use an aftermarket aluminum servo horn on my servo? A: Yes, you can. You may need to adjust the spacing on your servo to accommodate for the offset difference between servo horns. Q: Can Schelle or AE B5M alloy hubs work on the B6/B6D? A: Yes - they can. However you lose the height adjustment that the factory hubs have. No word yet on an alloy version of the height adjustable stock hubs. Q: Will the B6 work on dirt/clay? A: Yes, it will. Which one works better for your particular track will depend on how much experimentation you do and how high the traction is. Q: What parts transfer from the B5m to the B6/B6D? A: http://www.rcten.com/threads/b5-b6-b...ty-list.20367/ Q: Are the C and D mounts the same on the B6D as the B5M? A: No, they are different. Q: Does the B5m body work on the B6/B6D? A: No. Q: Can I put my B5M diff into the B6/B6D? A: Yes, with shimming. Q: What parts do I need to add a 4 gear transmission to my B6D? A:*Thanks to 190mph for the list* You will need the following parts: 91707 Standup 4 gear gearbox cases 91714 Standup 4 gear motor plate 91711 Standup 4 gear dust cover 91717 Idler gears 26T 91132 Idler Shafts 91560 Pack of 5x10x4 FT Bearings Also there is a specific Factory Team Spotlight page on 4 Gear setup for Outdoors tracks typically: Spotlight: 4-Gear Chassis | RC10B6D Q: What parts do I need to add a lay-down transmission to my B6D? A: *thanks to Boucher starting the list* You will need the following parts (complete list coming soon): 91708 Laydown gearbox 91709 Chassis braces 91715 Laydown motor plate 91716 Idler gear 91739 Body 91703 Gear diff (if desired) 91709 Waterfall OR YOU CAN GET THIS: 91705 B6 laydown transmission conversion Q: What would I need to covert a B6 to a B6D? A: You will need: 91706 Gear Box (3-gear) 91713 motor plate (3 gear) 91707 Gear Box (4 gear) 91714 motor plate (4 gear) 91709 Waterfall 91717 Idler gear 91711 Gear cover (4 gear) 91712 Gear cover (3 gear) 91739 Body 91663 Gull wing tower 91673 Gull wing arms 91702 Ball diff Q: Why did AE change the ball cup design? A: Here's the answer from AE's Tim Tunnerman: "The new ball cups are smaller in outer diameter, more enclosed to help keep debris out and improved consistency and fitment. Particularly under load." Q: What are the turnbuckles made of? A: Nickel Plated Spring Steel Q: How can I fit my B5M diffs in my B6/D? A: The B6 diffs are 2mm wider (1mm per side). The new part number for the gear diff includes the needed spacers so you can run the B5 series gear diff in the B6. They are just using the rear axle spacers they made for when using the +4 C/D mounts on the B5. The small spacers are not needed. Q: What side does the diff screw face in the transmission? A: I've traditionally done the diff screw head on the left side (driver's side), but have since switched to the Right side (passenger side) regardless of transmission type (3 gear RM vs 3 gear MM and 4 gear MM). Kdub (Kurt Wenger, former AE designer) had this to say on the matter:
Originally Posted by kdub
(Post 14695409)
I think I count as an authority on the matter. I always run my diff screw on the right side (when sitting "inside" the car). I take off the tire and pull the outer hinge pin to get to the adjustment screw.
The right rear is the way the AE manuals state (or used to state). It really shouldn't matter since you go around turns both left and right. B4.2: https://i.imgur.com/frHsTrs.png B5M 3-gear: https://i.imgur.com/frHsTrs.png B5M 4-gear: https://i.imgur.com/frHsTrs.png B6D 3-gear: https://i.imgur.com/frHsTrs.png Q: What does running the shocks on the B6 in front of the rear tower do? A: The shocks on the front of the arm lets the car change direction faster for very high grip conditions. Q: What shock eyelets do I use on which arm hole? A: http://www.rctech.net/forum/members/...let-chart.jpeg Q: What Kashima shock bodies do I need for the B6/B6D? A: For the front, you will need #ASC91576 12x23mm Buggy V2 Front Shock Body For the rear, you will need #ASC91577 12x27.5mm Truck V2 Front Shock Body For the rear, you can also buy #91666 B6 Rear Shock Tower (Long) and #ASC91578 Buggy V2 Rear Shock Body Q: Why was there such a short turnaround between the 5 and 6 series? The b4 lasted 10 years! A: Racing has changed dramatically over the last three to four years. Tracks and traction are changing. The need for a new car was necessary to adapt to all the new changes. You can still run the 5 series competitively. Your car didn't just get obsolete overnight. If you think about it, the B4 to B4.1 and then B4.2 progression were responses to tracks changing in traction and configurations. AE was just able to adapt the same platform. There is a high probability that we may see a more frequent life cycle time for vehicles. Q: Do I need to lube the gears in the transmission? A: This is a strictly personal preference, but a little grease doesn't hurt anything. We are talking about a small dab of grease, in one spot, on each gear. What kind of grease you ask? Black or clear AE grease work, shock oil works; just about anything that will provide a little lubrication. Q: What gearing do I start with? A: This question is very track dependent, but for Stock, start off with a 66, 69 or 72 spur and 28-34 pinion. For Mod, follow the chart in the manual to start. Always gear for temperature, and check after every practice run to ensure you are not building up too much heat. http://www.rctech.net/forum/members/...7-51-40-am.png Q: My turnbuckles are stiff/pop off when I try to adjust them, how do I fix them? A: Make sure you have greased the threads with either black grease or chapstick. You may want to use a drill to "work" each turnbuckle into the cups. To do this, chuck the turnbuckle into your drill, and drill slowly into and out of the ball end. This will cut and work the threads into the ballcups making it easier to make adjustments. There is a ball cup tool on Shapeways that you can use to hold the ball end, which will make this process much easier to do. Q: What hop-ups should I get for my new kit? A: start off with an aluminum steering rack and work from there. Q: What type of Diff Balls and Thrust balls should I use? A: General consensus on this forum is that Carbide diff balls and Ceramic thrust balls make the best diff. I have used ceramic diff balls before, but it does require a tighter setting. I would suggest using the carbide/ceramic combo mentioned above, but make sure you follow a break-in procedure as outlined in the above links further up in this post. Q: What's the difference between a 3 and 4 gear transmission? A: See this:
Originally Posted by Cpt.America
(Post 13767458)
It changes the direction the motor rotates/torques against the chassis. In a RM car, you want the motor's rotation direction to put pressure on the front tires, so the dang thing can turn, because there is so much weight out back. It gives the car a balanced feeling. RM car's accomplish this with a 3 gear trans.
In a MM car, because all of the weight of the car is inside the rear axle, the balance sits the other way. On-throttle, they CAN lack REAR bite, instead of front bite. So you run a 4gear trans, so that the rotation of the motor torques the chassis to put pressure on the rear tires instead. If you run a 3 gear trans in a MM car, you have the potential to really limit weight shift to the rear of the car. This is stuff I learned 20 years ago, and still have modern day experience with when I was running the DEX and Cougar (which only had 4gear option). It's published info you can go look-up yourself. As a matter of fact, Durango has a GREAT little graphical diagram that teaches the whole thing. I will venture to say that MOST tracks, the 4gear will be better. On SOME tracks that have high enough traction... the 3 gear will be better. Either way, releasing the truck stock with a 3 gear would be a mistake, as it certainly won't be the way to go for most tracks. So in conclusion, it is my opinion that it will be a tuning option for those that want the most amount of on-throttle steering as possible, which will usually only be tracks with the highest levels of traction. Kurt Wenger A quick lesson on 3-gear...here we go. I personally believe the difference in drag is nothing compared to the difference in car handling. 3-gear won't give you the feeling of more power. There are 2 things the gearbox (and thus the motor orientation) change on the handling: 1) torque effect: When you hit the gas, with a 4-gear, the motor pitches the car to the rear, adding grip on power. The 3-gear orientation pitches the car towards the front, resisting weight transfer. The opposite is true on decelleration/brakes. 3-gear makes the motor forces resist the natural direction of weight transfer 2) gyro effect: When you turn, the 4-gear orientation makes the motor add to the lean of the car, while the 3-gear orientation resists lean. Thus, when you drive the 3-gear, the car feels less reactive/more mellow, with less on-power traction. This is generally good for extremely high grip tracks, or drivers that want the car to stay flat in the turns....3-gear generally stabilizes the car but you need to make a few changes to get enough rear grip. I wouldn't recommend it on a loose or low-grip track. http://www.team-durango.com/blog/wp-...00x666_mm4.jpg The rotation of the motor is in the same direction as the rotation of the wheels. The torque of the motor is in opposition to the rotation of the motor and is ‘aimed’ between the motor and the contact patch of the tyre. This causes the rear end to squat under acceleration aiding forward traction whilst keeping wheelies to minimum. The rotation of the motor is in the opposite direction to the rotation of the wheels. The torque of the motor is in opposition to the rotation of the motor and is ‘aimed’ in front of the motor. This causes the rear end to squat very little under acceleration and provides very little mechanical grip unless there is already sufficient grip from the tyres. Thus forward traction is not as high as MM4. Here's Frank Root's (TLR designer) take on 3 gear vs 4 gear: https://youtu.be/HkthhHMhebk?t=474 Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference, as *I* like the 4 gear (feels more natural to me) but a 3 gear can work for you, you really just have to try both out to see what works. Q: A: |
RCBuddha has shown in the past that he has the dedication and willingness to take on the task of keeping the thread properly updated and his help is extremely appreciated by the members here.
Please use this thread to discuss the most recent addition to the Team Associated family of vehicles. |
HOW TO/BUILD LINKS
Vehicle builds: http://www.competitionx.com/rc-build...ing-and-servo/ http://www.rccaraction.com/blog/2016...ssociated-b6d/ Build tip #1 from Brent Theilke: If you're not able to get full throw to the right, this ballstud may be too high. With all the different servos, servo horns and tolerance build-up, the articulation of the drag link may be the limiting factor. The aluminum bellcrank calls for 2mm here, but I had to go to 0 in order to get full throw. http://i.imgur.com/qibjPAu.jpg Build tip #2 from Nick Wautlet: #wallietip: if using the FT aluminum steering rack, bellcranks and servo horn run the steel kit screws rather than the titanium ones. The aluminum parts minimize the flex in the steering which stresses these two screws and can cause them to shear. http://i.imgur.com/rHjAzuZ.jpg Build tip #3 from Brent Thielke With all the rear roll center adjustments available in the B6 platform it can be confusing communicating what each position means. For me, the easiest way to talk about them is as center, half and full. So for this picture, my inserts are "half up and half in". I have the same position in the "C" arm mount, so my toe is still 3* with 1* anti-squat. http://i.imgur.com/KUhG46q.jpg Build Tip #4 via Facebook if you want to bolt a fan to the chassis try doing this: http://www.rctech.net/forum/members/...5-fanmount.jpg https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...99&oe=5825D0E5 Build Tip #5 from RC*Phreak Regarding MIP Pucks and adding the correct shimming: i got the shim situation with the pucks sorted out. you have to: 1) put inner bearing in hub 2) slide large shim over axle all the way up to the back of the axle 3) slide axle/bone into hub carrier 4) slide small shim onto axle through hub carrier 5) push outter bearing into hub carrier using that i'm able to put my normal male silverback gorilla wheel nut tightening job and there's no binding. in the pictures that come with the shims (the pic socket posted) it seems like they want you to slide both shims onto the axle before sliding the axle into the hub carrier and like i said, that doesn't work. Build Tip #6 from Brent Thielke I keep tweaking/bending my rear wing mounts, is there a fix? Yes, do not over-tighten the screws that hold the wing down, screw them down till their snug and maybe back off 1/2 turn or so. |
Nice Buddha. Going to be a great thread. Let the discussion begin while we wait for June. Today happens to be my birthday. Awesome.
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Looking forward to picking up the standard B6...
Thank you RCBuddha |
http://liverc.com/news/new_products/...6_and_RC10B6D/
Some info on live RC... So far I don't see much reason for upgrading if youre a dirt guy. I could be wrong though. |
New chassis and more bling along with carbon fiber shock mounts, no more front inserts. Don't know weight o car yet as built but I think it has enough changes for me. I think I'm buying three cars, B6D, B6C and one more to play with and have a B6H. H is for hybrid. ;)
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Looking good. I'm excited to see a new kit but not at the same time since I only recently got the b5m. Looks like I'll have a project to work on soon!
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I plan to pick up a B6 for our high grip track.
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Essentially you could have the B6D then swap out front tower and arms and rear transmission and you should have the B6.
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I might get one. I still prefer the AE buggies and Losi Trucks.
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AE Team over at EOS, doing work. Roll out the new car, same day at EOS, should have some good shots this weekend.
http://eos.redrc.net |
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I kinda want to buy one even though I only go racing like 2-3 times per year. B5 rear motor always left me slower than I would have liked, and now I'm going to be really outclassed.
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Does anyone else see two different chassis's?
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Originally Posted by Flip boy
(Post 14511100)
Does anyone else see two different chassis's?
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Originally Posted by Flip boy
(Post 14511100)
Does anyone else see two different chassis's?
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If i was looking for a new brand this might convince me to give ae a second look but im lovin my losi cars currently
This is by far my favorite kit body that i have seen for an ae car so far |
I took both pictures from the AE website and stitched them together. I agree that the B6D picture seems to be a bit smaller than the B6.
Originally Posted by Myt3rocks
(Post 14511108)
I don't think they are. The bottom shot of the B6 has the holes for the stand up transmission's waterfall. That side by side photo isn't perfectly to scale, the B6D looks smaller in every direction. I first noticed it looking at the size of the servo.
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Same car, pictures taken at different times and placed side by side to make one picture.
The distance between the car and the camera are different which would explain the size dimension differences. |
1 Attachment(s)
I like the battery hold down. Seems to have a clamping post that you set to your battery height then the nut (same 7mm hex as the wheel nuts) is tighten down. No more servo taping your lipos down.
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I like it.
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Subscribed!
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The car looks great. The pretty much addressed every issue I had with the b5m. even the little clamping stops on the battery strap screws is a nice touch. no more battery foams. one piece front hubs. 1 piece alum chassis. And it looks like going from laydown to stand will be easy and cheap for most tracks.
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Originally Posted by JC8390
(Post 14511055)
So far I don't see much reason for upgrading if youre a dirt guy. I could be wrong though. |
Chassis Focus - Spencer Rivkin - EOS
http://eos.redrc.net/2016/04/chassis...pencer-rivkin/ Looks like AE might have some Factory Team goodies ready to go as well.... |
Spencer already running all the added weights...
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Nice lookin car, but I don't see me swapping this out for my B5M for the track that I run at.
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What is the actual benefit of the lay down transmission? There are some obvious weight distribution changes.. does it help with corner speed.. etc?
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Originally Posted by Socket
(Post 14511239)
Spencer already running all the added weights...
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Originally Posted by Yanks213x
(Post 14511291)
What is the actual benefit of the lay down transmission? There are some obvious weight distribution changes.. does it help with corner speed.. etc?
At the sacrifice of rear bite. |
AE is very lucky to have Kody.
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B5M to B6 or Laydown Conversion
Will Associated be offering a conversion to convert your B5m to a B6 or a lay down conversion or is this a totally different car, doesn't look that different?
Looks like the B6D is a good option for 17.5 racing ! |
Originally Posted by Johnn27
(Post 14511320)
Will Associated be offering a conversion to convert your B5m to a B6 or a lay down conversion or is this a totally different car, doesn't look that different?
Looks like the B6D is a good option for 17.5 racing ! |
Originally Posted by Johnn27
(Post 14511320)
Will Associated be offering a conversion to convert your B5m to a B6 or a lay down conversion or is this a totally different car, doesn't look that different?
Looks like the B6D is a good option for 17.5 racing ! |
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