If "stock" were a spec class, what parts would you specify?
12-31-2015, 08:01 PM
#46
13.5 is way too fast for less than expert drivers. The reason 17.5 works is that it's fast enough but manageable for newer drivers. Whether or not the jumps can be cleared depends on who the track designer is catering to.
Last edited by Davidka; 01-01-2016 at 07:07 AM.
12-31-2015, 08:02 PM
#47
My thought on the subject is this, if you have a spec class, you will have 2 kinds of people racing it, those who try to cheat and those who think others are cheating. I raced stock for many years because my talent was not good enough to race mod. I am a very honest person and tried to by the fastest legal motor, speedo and best batteries. I was always a mid pack guy. I know practice would make me better, but when someone motors past you on the long straight, no amount of practice can fix that. I finally decided to run mod, despite my skill level. I now have more run than ever, spend less money and don't have to worry about cheaters because there are no rules to cheat. I do like when there is a mod pro and a mod sportsman option. This allows me to compete with people of a similar skill set. Then you have your "sandbaggers" so even that can be frustrating.
12-31-2015, 10:44 PM
#48
I don't know where you were racing in the 90s but stock was expensive, cutting coms constantly, brushes, expensive batteries to keep enough punch to last a whole race. Now 89 dollar esc motor combo a 40 buck shorty and some tires and you're good to go.
12-31-2015, 11:13 PM
#49
Tech Adept
iTrader: (7)
I think ROAR needs to go back to its roots. 27 turn brushed motors locked at 24 degree's of timing was the standard. Why not have the manufacturers make brushless 27 turn motors with locked endbells at 24 degrees. It would slow the cars down and create a bigger difference in lap times from stock to mod. It would also provide closer racing, possibly even side by side racing. Teach drivers how to keep momentum and take away a tuning option of timing. Which some people new to rc racing are confused or reluctant to play with for fear of burning up their motor.
In my opinion "stock" is way faster than it used to be back in the brushed motor days. I would like to see a comparison of the same car setup with a brushed 27t compared to a 17.5 and see the lap times. Then drop motor turns to 21.5, 25.5 and so on until its comparable.
In my opinion "stock" is way faster than it used to be back in the brushed motor days. I would like to see a comparison of the same car setup with a brushed 27t compared to a 17.5 and see the lap times. Then drop motor turns to 21.5, 25.5 and so on until its comparable.
01-01-2016, 06:45 AM
#50
Tech Adept
Thread Starter
A lot of it also comes from LiPo batteries. I wouldn't be surprised if a 27t stock brushed motor actually was as fast as a 17.5 if they're both using the same battery.
01-01-2016, 06:51 AM
#51
Tech Master
iTrader: (15)
The problem with spec racing is that people think it is for beginners. I view it as a racers class where driver skill and setup come through, with a bit of a view to a budget. Personally I like run what a brung and if you don't like being in the last main improve, but that seems to be the minority position.
I'd pick two mid range brands motors and ESC and spec those. HW just stock and open to suggestions on the other, maybe Speed Passion? No idea on motors. It's my winter for fun class and I have Trackstar stuff in it.
Motor is 13.5 Blinky. Blinky is Easier to setup for new racers and 13.5 is fast enough to be fun for vets. Yes clearing the jumps is fun folks.
Tires pick two long lasting ones. If it's carpet or a surface where slicks work mandate that and allow sauce. One less thing to cheat on.
Open chassis, you can have minimum weight if you want.
I like 2 of everything in case one goes out of stock or is discontinued.
I'd pick two mid range brands motors and ESC and spec those. HW just stock and open to suggestions on the other, maybe Speed Passion? No idea on motors. It's my winter for fun class and I have Trackstar stuff in it.
Motor is 13.5 Blinky. Blinky is Easier to setup for new racers and 13.5 is fast enough to be fun for vets. Yes clearing the jumps is fun folks.
Tires pick two long lasting ones. If it's carpet or a surface where slicks work mandate that and allow sauce. One less thing to cheat on.
Open chassis, you can have minimum weight if you want.
I like 2 of everything in case one goes out of stock or is discontinued.
I really like the 21.5 idea. I drove a B5M with a 21.5 and it was actually pretty fun, slower down the straights, but teaches you to drive very smooth and keep momentum as much as possible.
01-01-2016, 07:45 AM
#52
No one said stock or spec has to be for newer drivers. Spec is about having a fun racers class and racing within parameters.
Fewer classes and more heats within them is what helps newer drivers as they get sorted into their own skill level and can race without pulling over all the time.
01-01-2016, 08:24 AM
#54
LOL 13.5 is not way too fast.
No one said stock or spec has to be for newer drivers. Spec is about having a fun racers class and racing within parameters.
Fewer classes and more heats within them is what helps newer drivers as they get sorted into their own skill level and can race without pulling over all the time.
No one said stock or spec has to be for newer drivers. Spec is about having a fun racers class and racing within parameters.
Fewer classes and more heats within them is what helps newer drivers as they get sorted into their own skill level and can race without pulling over all the time.
01-01-2016, 08:28 AM
#55
We need new driver
First of all we need to be concerned about new driver. I think at times we forget that our hobby need new racer to take the place of the driver that leave the hobby. So all of us need to think about a class that is for new racer and old racer (50 yrs plus). At this time with short course popularity falling off, and the popularity of 2 wheel drive buggy increasing. We need to slow down 2 wheel drive buggy as it is to fast for new racer and if we don't keep some of the new racer we will not have a place to race at. As we all know we are not the only hobby out there. So with that said we need to go to 21.5 and maybe 25.5 as 17.5 is just to fast for stock class.
01-01-2016, 08:53 AM
#56
Some very excellent points here!
Seems like the change needs to be something where the very skilled racer wouldn't want to run the class. That's what was driving my adding weight suggestion. Like a skilled racer might not be interested in spec slash class or a brushed titan motor class.
Seems like the change needs to be something where the very skilled racer wouldn't want to run the class. That's what was driving my adding weight suggestion. Like a skilled racer might not be interested in spec slash class or a brushed titan motor class.
01-01-2016, 09:34 AM
#57
Some very excellent points here!
Seems like the change needs to be something where the very skilled racer wouldn't want to run the class. That's what was driving my adding weight suggestion. Like a skilled racer might not be interested in spec slash class or a brushed titan motor class.
Seems like the change needs to be something where the very skilled racer wouldn't want to run the class. That's what was driving my adding weight suggestion. Like a skilled racer might not be interested in spec slash class or a brushed titan motor class.
Spec classes should cater to experienced drivers, not beginners.
01-01-2016, 09:36 AM
#58
Part of the issue is the "mentality" of the classes. By that I mean, 17.5 is considered "stock" or a "spec" class. But, as its been said again and again, It's not stock in any way shape or form and the only "spec" part of it is 17.5 and blinky. I know many guys with 17.5 motors so modded,(bearings,magnets,rotors and such) that they have more in the motor than my 22 2.0 cost. And while ESC's may be better now, even MFG's were cheating on that a while back!! Stated too is the fact that on a small to med size track, 17.5 and mod are running almost equal lap times.To consider it a STOCK class and not limit brands to one. you'd need to have mfg like losi,AE KYosho etc make a basic unit and color many of the parts,say orange to dictate stock and then get agreement on a spec motor,say brushless 21.5 with a sealed endbell. All batteries must be 4000K 65C and all cars run 2 laps practice b4 race start to get rid of voltage overage. Then, maybe you can have a chance of equal playing field. Oh yeah, we be still blinky.
01-01-2016, 09:41 AM
#59
Motor zapper, cutting comms to nothing, cutting brushes and breaking the motor in every run. 15 batteries all at $100 each. Dead shorting...oh I could go on forever.
01-01-2016, 09:43 AM
#60
I didn't see it mentioned but what about mandating a spec charger? One that only putts out 50 watts or something so guys will no longer charge at 40 amps. It would be safer and more fair. Except for needing to buy another charger of course. And having to watch guys charge their packs.