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Old 12-04-2015, 03:45 PM   #46
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It seems like every few posts I see from you Cpt. America, you're flexing your moderator muscle brandishing your powers to banish people instead of encouraging people to simmer down and be respectful. Even your signature conveys that kind of approach. Not quite sure why it's needed or if it's warranted.
My signature is a line from an Anthrax song I find funny.. nothing more. But if it offends you, I can remove it. And guess what, part of what being a moderator IS, is flexing the the moderator power. And I was only referring to what I predict racer is going to do once he sees the post. No need for me to do anything for him. He's a big boy.

If people misbehave, break rules, that is what we have to do. You call somebody a moron here, you're going to get dinged. Do it enough, and you're on your way out. Them's the rules... set by the site admin and IB. But cmon, every few posts? Are you sure about that? Let me go through my last 100 and see what kind of percentage I come to. Relax. Life goes on. If you think I am the tough moderator here... you're obviously new! Tell him, Racer.

(EDIT: I just glanced over my last 100 posts, and I count 2 moderator type warning messages I had to post. Not that it actually matters. Back on topic)
(P.S. If I broke one of the site's own rules, feel free to contact the site Admin about it)
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Old 12-04-2015, 03:54 PM   #47
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Fred, 21.5 is very real. I'd like to see ROAR make the next step, and go a 25.5 turn for stock. The cars themselves and the battery tech is so good that they'd be just fine.
I too wish ROAR would slow down stock. I also raced in the 90's in stock, just some club and backyard track racing. A few of us could race side-by-side lap after lap for a whole battery. Just not possible with 17.5, they are too fast and you need the whole track to yourself to be fast.

Ahh the memories. My RC10T team truck vs my dads Traxxas Blue Eagle LSII or III, both with tekin esc's and Green Machine 2's. Mini pins were the hot tires and side-by-side powerslides. Lap after lap trying to edge each other and only doing so if someone made a mistake.
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:47 PM   #48
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When I originally raced offroad, we didn't have foam inside the tires. Often times we didn't even need to glue the tires on the wheels. Tire changes were quick and easy on the car and they'd last forever.
Remember the open letter Gil Losi Jr. wrote about banning foams, when they were first taking off? His point was foams would allow far softer tires, greater wear, thus higher costs to race. I know it's probably way too late, but I often wonder what if that rule had been adopted.

Tires are about the only thing I can think of that has become more expensive.

Motors, go back to before the Roar 91 locked timing rule, when we cranked the timing up. Motor life was very short, new one every week was common. Buying several for any big event. Added to buying different brushes, springs, the time spent getting them going and constantly rebuilding, etc. It was fun learning the tricks and I like reminiscing, but am glad to move on too.
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:57 PM   #49
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Remember the open letter Gil Losi Jr. wrote about banning foams, when they were first taking off? His point was foams would allow far softer tires, greater wear, thus higher costs to race. I know it's probably way too late, but I often wonder what if that rule had been adopted.
On a really soft loamy dirt track, no foam worked. Gave the most traction, where precision feel wasn't as important. Imagine running a modern wheel and tire with NO foam . Certainly tire and wheel designs would look completely different today if that rule had gone through. I would think the vast majority of increased tire wear (and therefor cost), is from the surface itself. If you run foams and hard tires on a soft dirt loamy track, tire wear will still be super low even today, yeah?
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Old 12-04-2015, 05:15 PM   #50
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Just playin with him, Davidka..
I was referring to Racer, not you.

Anyway, to the OP, don't believe what you've heard about 17.5 off road. The reason so many people are running is because it's really fun. If you don't dig it, you're a motor change away from switching to modified! You can't go wrong.
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Old 12-04-2015, 07:25 PM   #51
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I raced in the 90's.....miss it.....real dirt.....real challenges.....don't over-gear.....is your battery really charged....no practice laps...no transponders.....hand count....edges and step pins for tires....prayed for 4 minutes of race time.......those were the days!
I love 17.5 racing.....it's not high dollar racing....it's a thinking class.....what to gear at....to much timing.....not enough timing....shock oil setting....play with the set up....it's a fun class......don't be afraid of it!

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Old 12-04-2015, 10:17 PM   #52
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My opinion of a 17.5 blinky class is that it should be regulated and set up as one class using one motor and one ESC, Like a Trackstar set up, I think this would keep it fair-ish/ inexpensive. The problem is a lot of tracks don't have the man power or ambition to regulate this. 17.5 buggy is one of the funnest classes I run, being the fact that there are quite a few "fast guys" in my area. It gives the regular guys a fair shot at other average racers. lots of guys blow this way out of proportion with $130 dollar motors and all the other parts that go with it, which forces you to keep up and buy parts, plus the fact that you have guys winning mod classes and still running stock too....or winning stock every week, but too afraid to run mod.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:45 PM   #53
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All this bickering and the original poster hasn't even responded. Maybe he's just trying to get some goats? :P

I run both class and enjoy both. To each their own.
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Old 12-05-2015, 12:01 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by racer1812 View Post
THEN RUN MOD!!! WTF IS THE POINT OF RUNNING 17.5 IF YOU'RE GONNA BOOST IT!?

Boosted 17.5 is such a great idea almost NOBODY does it! You sir are special.




Yea I don't quite understand boosting a 17.5 and run with the mod motor class just get a mod motor.
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Old 12-05-2015, 12:45 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Cpt.America View Post
On a really soft loamy dirt track, no foam worked. Gave the most traction, where precision feel wasn't as important. Imagine running a modern wheel and tire with NO foam . Certainly tire and wheel designs would look completely different today if that rule had gone through. I would think the vast majority of increased tire wear (and therefor cost), is from the surface itself. If you run foams and hard tires on a soft dirt loamy track, tire wear will still be super low even today, yeah?
Probably to a point. I agree tires would have developed differently, carcass and sidewall design-thickness etc, and still softened up some.

Tougher what if question is how no foams might have changed track development. Hard pack would still happen, it already was headed that way, but would it have gone as far? One thing I find surprising when I take a vintage ride out on a clay track is the 20+ year old and age hardened tires work better than I ever expected. Not as grippy but very driveable, actually pretty fun because of some slip. So perhaps track would have developed much the same, but tires would still last a little longer I suspect.
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Old 12-05-2015, 12:54 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by fredswain View Post
Old brushed motor stock class was 6 cell batteries (open to any SC, SCR, or SCE cell) and ROAR approved 27 turn motors with fixed timing at 24. The cans were sealed (until the 2000's) and the motors used bushings instead of bearings. We didn't have esc timing so that wasn't an issue. A stock equivalent today needs to pick a motor limit, run blinky mode with no esc timing, and run a fixed endbell timing on the motor. That's it. Simple. This doesn't have to be complicated.

Now you might say that not all motors or batteries are created equal. They never were in the past either but it still often came down to the smoothest driving.
Got my vote for fixed timing. Would it be a magical solution no, but it would be directionally correct I think. Stock always has been and always will be a gear to the moon class with increased risk of burning motors, but it would slow the class down some and help I strongly suspect.

History repeats itself, lets do it!

Although the main obstacle is likely the greatly increased brushless motor life, a rules change was easier when motor life was so short.
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Old 12-05-2015, 07:03 AM   #57
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That for the responses, guys!

Sorry for my late response, I got busy yesterday, and them my phone did a post fail...

Honestly, I think this might be the first positive post I have seen on the blinky classes. I am glad to hear people enjoy the class, and can be competitive without spending a huge amount of money. Looks like I will need to make the drive to the "local" 1:10 track and check out the action for my self.

My slow car comments were based on some youtube car reviews - the poster would say "I tested this car in the 17.5 blinky class" And in the vid, few of the cars could clear even small doubles. But then, maybe I have just been watching too many 1:8 race vids, where the cars can jump 20' with only a 5' running start.

Also thinks for the reminders that the "golden age" was not always so golden. I didn't chase motors as hard as a lot of people, I didn't have a lathe, and had the goal of making the season on 2 motors. I would still cut brushes, tweak springs, polish comms, cycle batteries, and probably a lot of other stuff I have forgotten...


Thanks again all-

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Old 12-05-2015, 07:10 AM   #58
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. lots of guys blow this way out of proportion with $130 dollar motors and all the other parts that go with it, which forces you to keep up and buy parts...
Completely unnecessary. Guys buy that stuff mostly because part of the fun in this hobby is the toys. The fastest stock racers at the track where I race run cars with stock drivetrains and the same motors/batteries everyone can get. It's an extremely competitive track where only the 3-4 fastest guys make the A-Main every week & the next dozen cover 5th through 15th in a spread of 5-10 seconds. Drive well, use the right tires & prep. Putting a $1k car on the track doesn't show up on the time sheets.

Re. tire/foam:
This happened for a few reasons. One was that several of the most popular markets were desert like so hardpack was the only choice and maintaining a loamy track took a lot of work. Add to the consistency of hardpack (ROAR says no track work during race days @ big events) and for better or worse, you wind up where we are now.

If it weren't for foam inserts I wonder what we'd have? I'm envisioning multi compound with a firm enough inside to hold the shape and soft tread. Probably more expensive too. I still wish we had bead locks so we could change foams without cutting and gluing.
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Old 12-05-2015, 07:40 AM   #59
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definitely focus on your driving first before worrying about motor wars. Its true not all motors are a like, but until your skills are such that it can show up, would't worry about it.

Last few times doing stock 2wd buggy (17.5 blinky) I have been running an old Viper 17.5 I got in and it works surprising well.
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Old 12-05-2015, 08:36 AM   #60
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I too wish ROAR would slow down stock. I also raced in the 90's in stock, just some club and backyard track racing. A few of us could race side-by-side lap after lap for a whole battery. Just not possible with 17.5, they are too fast and you need the whole track to yourself to be fast.

Ahh the memories. My RC10T team truck vs my dads Traxxas Blue Eagle LSII or III, both with tekin esc's and Green Machine 2's. Mini pins were the hot tires and side-by-side powerslides. Lap after lap trying to edge each other and only doing so if someone made a mistake.
man got county hill behind me and two neighbors have rc cars as well so a neighborhood unlimited race is fun. on a track thats natural dirt so traction is unlikely last time was my stampede brothers emaxx other brother with sc10 all brushless and one neighbor with a losi nitro buggy and another with a dhk car. basically backyard track so jumps are awesome so much dust kicked up from drifts its insane we need actual tracks like this.
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