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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

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Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 12-07-2015, 06:43 PM   #811
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Originally Posted by 68pontiac View Post
I just got my kit today and although I haven't had a chance to build it yet I was wondering if Frank or another team member could tell me whether TLR #TLR331011 (Aluminum Battery Mount Thumb Screw Kit) will fit the 3.0?



I have this currently installed on my 2.0 buggy and really like the thumbscrews and would love to transfer them over. It seems as though they might fit purely based on the manual but the posts might be shorter. If they will not fit and carry over is there a 3.0 thumb screw kit that will be offered?
you have to cut the mount, drill a hole and install a grub in there.
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Old 12-07-2015, 08:34 PM   #812
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This being my first TLR and probably my last, I thought I'd give my opinion. The shocks are the worst I've built (not sure if I got some bad xrings ) they leak just sitting on the bench. I've bled the front shocks four of five times and can not get the same rebound. The shock shaft pushed through the xrings like there not even there. Others have talked about stripping screw holes , although I didn't strip out any holes some are probably very close. Screwing on the front shock tower those screws barely get snug. This is the first buggy I've owned where the dog bone is so close to the edge of the outdrive that it's scary (can't be that hard making them even .5mm longer) I'm sure it wouldn't hurt handling. The body is a pain in the a$$ to get in on the front through the shock tower. Steering rack is pretty tight too, was also disappointed the rack wasn't aluminum but soft plastic . So far after building the 22 3.0 I am not impressed with it but I'll give it a shot and see how it drives before I make my decision to sell it.
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:00 PM   #813
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Originally Posted by 303slowdown View Post
This being my first TLR and probably my last, I thought I'd give my opinion. The shocks are the worst I've built (not sure if I got some bad xrings ) they leak just sitting on the bench. I've bled the front shocks four of five times and can not get the same rebound. The shock shaft pushed through the xrings like there not even there. Others have talked about stripping screw holes , although I didn't strip out any holes some are probably very close. Screwing on the front shock tower those screws barely get snug. This is the first buggy I've owned where the dog bone is so close to the edge of the outdrive that it's scary (can't be that hard making them even .5mm longer) I'm sure it wouldn't hurt handling. The body is a pain in the a$$ to get in on the front through the shock tower. Steering rack is pretty tight too, was also disappointed the rack wasn't aluminum but soft plastic . So far after building the 22 3.0 I am not impressed with it but I'll give it a shot and see how it drives before I make my decision to sell it.
Let me know, I'll take it off of your hands.
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:31 PM   #814
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My LHS doesn't carry Losi and I am going to place an order for spare parts. What parts are most likely to break that I should keep on hand as spares?
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:59 PM   #815
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Originally Posted by 303slowdown View Post
This being my first TLR and probably my last, I thought I'd give my opinion. The shocks are the worst I've built (not sure if I got some bad xrings ) they leak just sitting on the bench. I've bled the front shocks four of five times and can not get the same rebound. The shock shaft pushed through the xrings like there not even there. Others have talked about stripping screw holes , although I didn't strip out any holes some are probably very close. Screwing on the front shock tower those screws barely get snug. This is the first buggy I've owned where the dog bone is so close to the edge of the outdrive that it's scary (can't be that hard making them even .5mm longer) I'm sure it wouldn't hurt handling. The body is a pain in the a$$ to get in on the front through the shock tower. Steering rack is pretty tight too, was also disappointed the rack wasn't aluminum but soft plastic . So far after building the 22 3.0 I am not impressed with it but I'll give it a shot and see how it drives before I make my decision to sell it.
Some people want a maserati for the price of a VW... not much you can do to please them. TLR shocks are second to one, yes I do mean one, and that is kyosho. Do you prefer to glue in your front wheel bearing and caster inserts? I am not being a jerk but there are a lot of kits out there that dont even come close in quality of materials and fit & finish.

Another thought, these companies are perfectly capable of providing the highest quality plastics available, but if nothing ever breaks or wears out how can we as the consumer expect them to stick around to provide new and exciting cars to drive? this holds true with every Manufacturer. Every kit has its flaws.
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Old 12-07-2015, 10:42 PM   #816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303slowdown View Post
This being my first TLR and probably my last, I thought I'd give my opinion. The shocks are the worst I've built (not sure if I got some bad xrings ) they leak just sitting on the bench. I've bled the front shocks four of five times and can not get the same rebound. The shock shaft pushed through the xrings like there not even there. Others have talked about stripping screw holes , although I didn't strip out any holes some are probably very close. Screwing on the front shock tower those screws barely get snug. This is the first buggy I've owned where the dog bone is so close to the edge of the outdrive that it's scary (can't be that hard making them even .5mm longer) I'm sure it wouldn't hurt handling. The body is a pain in the a$$ to get in on the front through the shock tower. Steering rack is pretty tight too, was also disappointed the rack wasn't aluminum but soft plastic . So far after building the 22 3.0 I am not impressed with it but I'll give it a shot and see how it drives before I make my decision to sell it.
Honestly surprised to read this. TLR quality is right up there with the best IMO.
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Old 12-07-2015, 11:05 PM   #817
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Originally Posted by Skeeter36 View Post
Some people want a maserati for the price of a VW... not much you can do to please them. TLR shocks are second to one, yes I do mean one, and that is kyosho. Do you prefer to glue in your front wheel bearing and caster inserts? I am not being a jerk but there are a lot of kits out there that dont even come close in quality of materials and fit & finish.

Another thought, these companies are perfectly capable of providing the highest quality plastics available, but if nothing ever breaks or wears out how can we as the consumer expect them to stick around to provide new and exciting cars to drive? this holds true with every Manufacturer. Every kit has its flaws.
Has nothing to do with wanting it cheaper, also has nothing to do with parts wearing out but having holes strip or the screws not tighten is unacceptable to me. I've owned many brands of kits on and off road (I've been racing since 94) and this build just wasn't very good in my opinion. My kit has some issues as do some others on hear who have posted. Just giving my story that's all. No need to get defensive, it will all be ok.
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Old 12-08-2015, 12:06 AM   #818
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I can see where the seals may not hold well looking at the way the instructions are illustrated. Especially when assembling the seals and adding the caps before inserting the shock shafts.

I usually reverse the process for this style of shock. I'll insert the shaft in the shock body, then slide the seals over the shaft while there is no compression on them while sliding over the threads. Then add the cap.

Honestly no two kits of the same car will always go together the same. There can be some different quirks between the two. This might be a result of mass production and if it was 4:55 Friday when boxing your car.
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Old 12-08-2015, 06:19 AM   #819
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Originally Posted by 303slowdown View Post
This being my first TLR and probably my last, I thought I'd give my opinion. The shocks are the worst I've built (not sure if I got some bad xrings ) they leak just sitting on the bench. I've bled the front shocks four of five times and can not get the same rebound. The shock shaft pushed through the xrings like there not even there. Others have talked about stripping screw holes , although I didn't strip out any holes some are probably very close. Screwing on the front shock tower those screws barely get snug. This is the first buggy I've owned where the dog bone is so close to the edge of the outdrive that it's scary (can't be that hard making them even .5mm longer) I'm sure it wouldn't hurt handling. The body is a pain in the a$$ to get in on the front through the shock tower. Steering rack is pretty tight too, was also disappointed the rack wasn't aluminum but soft plastic . So far after building the 22 3.0 I am not impressed with it but I'll give it a shot and see how it drives before I make my decision to sell it.
Silicone o-rings or x-rings swell when in contact with silicone oil. If the seals fit 100% perfectly when brand new, then after the rings swell, they will crush on the shaft and bind a lot. Our rings designed to be the perfect fit after they swell just a touch. In a day or two, your rings will be the perfect size, and won't leak or bind at all for 3-6 months depending on how much you run and on what surface.

As for bleeding, we've had these shocks on the market for 2 full years plus, and this is the first time I've heard a complaint. For these cars, you don't want an rebound, which is how I build my shocks, and it has not once taken a 2nd effort to get all shocks built to this spec.

For the plastic, I've checked all of the screws that were called out by the other racer, and ran them in/out with a power drive 5 times without issue.

The great thing about the outdrive, is that a 1mm spacer is included in your kit to push it in 1mm, if you don't feel comfortable running as it. Most have run without it and had no issues with 3 deg of toe and -1.5 degree of camber.

On the steering rack, I'd check to be sure you didn't overtighten the screws, especially those on top of the bulkhead. We recommend to use thread lock there so that you don't have to crank those down too much. If they have been really tightened down, then you may have crushed the plastic pulling the tube into the top a bit. Just backing of the screws will fix this no issue. We have also been selling this rack, unchanged for over a year and this hasn't been an issue.

As for running it on the track, I am very confident that'll be the best part of your experience.
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Old 12-08-2015, 06:26 AM   #820
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Is there a TLR brand 3.0 chassis protector out yet? As for shocks, I love my proline diamond shock shafts. Smooth as butta. (I know there not really diamond coated)
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Old 12-08-2015, 06:46 AM   #821
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Our local shop has them in stock.

http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Def...odID=TLR331017
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Old 12-08-2015, 06:53 AM   #822
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Originally Posted by Guch View Post
Is there a TLR brand 3.0 chassis protector out yet? As for shocks, I love my proline diamond shock shafts. Smooth as butta. (I know there not really diamond coated)
Available, I seen them on horizon hobby.
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:01 AM   #823
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Originally Posted by Frank Root View Post
Silicone o-rings or x-rings swell when in contact with silicone oil. If the seals fit 100% perfectly when brand new, then after the rings swell, they will crush on the shaft and bind a lot. Our rings designed to be the perfect fit after they swell just a touch. In a day or two, your rings will be the perfect size, and won't leak or bind at all for 3-6 months depending on how much you run and on what surface.

As for bleeding, we've had these shocks on the market for 2 full years plus, and this is the first time I've heard a complaint. For these cars, you don't want an rebound, which is how I build my shocks, and it has not once taken a 2nd effort to get all shocks built to this spec.

For the plastic, I've checked all of the screws that were called out by the other racer, and ran them in/out with a power drive 5 times without issue.

The great thing about the outdrive, is that a 1mm spacer is included in your kit to push it in 1mm, if you don't feel comfortable running as it. Most have run without it and had no issues with 3 deg of toe and -1.5 degree of camber.

On the steering rack, I'd check to be sure you didn't overtighten the screws, especially those on top of the bulkhead. We recommend to use thread lock there so that you don't have to crank those down too much. If they have been really tightened down, then you may have crushed the plastic pulling the tube into the top a bit. Just backing of the screws will fix this no issue. We have also been selling this rack, unchanged for over a year and this hasn't been an issue.

As for running it on the track, I am very confident that'll be the best part of your experience.


Thats great that you have run the screws in and out on YOUR car.......If you wanted to do the same on MY car you would have 4 stripped holes.
Not just my car either, at least 3-4 other people on here also.

So either we are all idiots or there may still be a problem with one of your molds.
How many bulkheads do you mold at once? 20 pieces?
Maybe one of those 20 molds are messed up.

I guess it's just easier to blame it on user error instead of making a consistent product.
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:35 AM   #824
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Building my second car learned that if you tighten the set screw to much in the bulkhead your front arms bind. Just enough were you can't pull the pin out.
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:43 AM   #825
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Originally Posted by Josh Hohnstein View Post
Thats great that you have run the screws in and out on YOUR car.......If you wanted to do the same on MY car you would have 4 stripped holes.
Not just my car either, at least 3-4 other people on here also.

So either we are all idiots or there may still be a problem with one of your molds.
How many bulkheads do you mold at once? 20 pieces?
Maybe one of those 20 molds are messed up.

I guess it's just easier to blame it on user error instead of making a consistent product.
I want to make sure you know you can call Horizon Customer Support and they will be happy to replace those parts that you feel are defective. I would use the call back feature so it doesnt eat up much of your time.
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