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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

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Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 12-04-2015, 02:09 PM   #721
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I had this same thing happen to me too, but I didn't discover this until I was at home, read your post, and then checked. At the track, the car did have a slight push to it, but I wouldn't attribute it to the car just yet with brand new tires and an overly watered down track.

Did you refill with oil and then bleed them, or did you bleed out what was already in there? I refilled mine and had to bleed them a couple times to get minimal rebound, but am left with some head space that concerns me.
Out of interest do you build and bleed your shocks with the shock Spring cups fitted so as to ensure only the full amount of travel is used when bleeding out the excess oil.

I've been doing my shocks this way for a while now and don't suffer with rebound coming back during a race day and I can only think it might be something to do with a vacuum over time if you've bled out more oil than was needed and it draws in air perhaps

Last edited by losi8lunie; 12-05-2015 at 01:59 AM.
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Old 12-04-2015, 02:25 PM   #722
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Default Rebound on race day

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Out of interest do you build and bleed your shocks with the shock bottoms fitted so as to ensure only the full amount of travel is used when bleeding out the excess oil.

I've been doing my shocks this way for a while now and don't suffer with rebound coming back during a race day and I can only think it might be something to do with a vacuum over time if you've bled out more oil than was needed and it draws in air perhaps
Here is a thought. I know almost nothing about this but seems to me that on race day you are building heat in the shocks from running on the track. When you built the shocks they where at room temp, so it only makes sense that when it heats up it take up more volume and hence would push the shock shaft out a bit more on the rebound. Here is a chart, I don't know how to read it, but maybe someone smart can figure it out....lol.

http://www.clearcoproducts.com/pdf/l...pansion-SF.pdf
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Old 12-04-2015, 03:23 PM   #723
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Out of interest do you build and bleed your shocks with the shock bottoms fitted so as to ensure only the full amount of travel is used when bleeding out the excess oil.

I've been doing my shocks this way for a while now and don't suffer with rebound coming back during a race day and I can only think it might be something to do with a vacuum over time if you've bled out more oil than was needed and it draws in air perhaps
Yes, I bleed my shocks fully assembled and tightened. I found it odd that I built them with zero rebound and after a day they rebounded more than halfway.

I may be wrong, but a lack of air (space) is what causes rebound. If you don't bleed the shocks, the shaft has nowhere to go in the shock and is pushed out. So, to start with zero rebound and end up with halfway is peculiar.

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Here is a thought. I know almost nothing about this but seems to me that on race day you are building heat in the shocks from running on the track. When you built the shocks they where at room temp, so it only makes sense that when it heats up it take up more volume and hence would push the shock shaft out a bit more on the rebound.
I built my shocks in my kitchen, raced them at the track, but when I checked the rebound I was in my cold, uninsulated garage.
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Old 12-04-2015, 03:36 PM   #724
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Curious if anyone else had to tighten the slipper screw significantly -- almost bottomed out?

Diff is broken in. Not barking. Front wheels are lifting about 3-4 inches.

It works, but seems odd that we have to pinch the spring down that far.
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:03 PM   #725
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I built my shocks in my kitchen, raced them at the track, but when I checked the rebound I was in my cold, uninsulated garage.
I always build my shocks at the track. If you built in a 70* kitchen, the run at a 50* track, the shock is in void even when fully compressed - so it is going to become a vacuum and can suck in some air.

With another week with the silicone oil on the x-rings, they'll fit the shaft a little tighter and it'll be harder to suck the air. Ultimately, I'd still go with building at the track.
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:03 PM   #726
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I may be wrong, but a lack of air (space) is what causes rebound. If you don't bleed the shocks, the shaft has nowhere to go in the shock and is pushed out. So, to start with zero rebound and end up with halfway is peculiar.
Somehow you have air coming into the shock (or pressure has just increased). Your overall oil volume (oil mixed with air) has gone up since you built the shocks. Shock rebound should be checked before you run on a semi-regular basis. (i check mine once per race day on the weeks I don't rebuild)
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Old 12-04-2015, 05:23 PM   #727
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Here is a thought. I know almost nothing about this but seems to me that on race day you are building heat in the shocks from running on the track. When you built the shocks they where at room temp, so it only makes sense that when it heats up it take up more volume and hence would push the shock shaft out a bit more on the rebound. Here is a chart, I don't know how to read it, but maybe someone smart can figure it out....lol.

http://www.clearcoproducts.com/pdf/l...pansion-SF.pdf
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Old 12-04-2015, 05:30 PM   #728
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A zero rebound emulsion build will have negative pressure at extension. It'll suck in air eventually. This setup has the smallest amount of air in it at the onset. It might hold adjustment longer with a bladder since that allows for a larger air bubble above the oil.

Theoretically, your optimum setup would be to bleed & set rebound when the oil is already emulsified with air, just after a run. In a matter of a couple of minutes, the air separates from thr oil and reconstitutes the "bubble" so thisthis would be hard to achieve.

I usually bleed for no rebound and allow the shock to acquire its air on its own. This usually results in a consistent 1/2 rebound. Since this is something I can rely on, I don't tune with rebound.
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Old 12-04-2015, 05:43 PM   #729
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iam soo happy i just got my buggy see you guy later
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Old 12-04-2015, 07:01 PM   #730
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I usually bleed for no rebound and allow the shock to acquire its air on its own. This usually results in a consistent 1/2 rebound. Since this is something I can rely on, I don't tune with rebound.
What is your method to allow the shock to acquire its own air?
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Old 12-04-2015, 07:50 PM   #731
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What is your method to allow the shock to acquire its own air?
Fill & cap the shock (work out air bubbles 1st), open the bleed screw, compress slowly and replace the bleed screw with the shock at the top of its stroke. Reassemble with spring and let the car sit on a stand with the shocks fully extended. They'll draw in the air and usually settle at 1/2 rebound after they draw in air.

What I like about my method is that it is repeatable and consistent.
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Old 12-04-2015, 08:23 PM   #732
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You can always add the axle spacer that is included in the tuning bag onto the axle. It'll push the pin in 1mm and give a little more "comfort".
Thanks.... Since I couldn't find any list of what was in the "tuning bag" (I haven't opened that one yet), I didn't know those were in there....

Thanks again for all the help... LOSI has come a LOOOOOONG way since my first LOSI buggy (a Pro SE)...
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Old 12-05-2015, 11:21 AM   #733
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Just finished up my build and put mine on the track for the first time, haven't put a transponder in it yet but it feels very predictable and smooth!

Parts Etc:
  • Hobbywing Xerun 3.1 Stock ESC
  • Reedy Sonic Mach 3 17.5T Motor
  • Orion 4500mah 100C Shorty Lipo
  • Spektrum SRS4210 Rx(This would not have fit in 2.0 car!)
  • Savox 1258TG Servo
  • TLR Aluminum Driveshafts
  • 10mm Hex Front Axles (To use wheels from 2.0 car)
  • JC Gold Dirt Webs
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Old 12-05-2015, 12:38 PM   #734
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Originally Posted by b1narych0ice View Post
Just finished up my build and put mine on the track for the first time, haven't put a transponder in it yet but it feels very predictable and smooth!

Parts Etc:
  • Hobbywing Xerun 3.1 Stock ESC
  • Reedy Sonic Mach 3 17.5T Motor
  • Orion 4500mah 100C Shorty Lipo
  • Spektrum SRS4210 Rx(This would not have fit in 2.0 car!)
  • Savox 1258TG Servo
  • TLR Aluminum Driveshafts
  • 10mm Hex Front Axles (To use wheels from 2.0 car)
  • JC Gold Dirt Webs
She is one sexy bitch! excuse my language but can you blame me!
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Old 12-05-2015, 02:17 PM   #735
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What's the weight difference in the light weight body?
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