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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

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Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 12-04-2015, 08:46 AM   #706
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What does that do for handling?
I'm curious about this also cause I do have a brand new set of 22 rear axles with out the 1mm milled off so I could run those with no spacer. That is as soon as my car gets off that brown truck it is riding around in. Lol
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Old 12-04-2015, 08:49 AM   #707
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Can you post a picture of where the 1mm shim goes? It doesn't show it in the manual. Does the car just naturally have 1mm of slop behind the axel pin? Seems odd.
The spacer would go on the axle then put the axle into the hub/bearings. The drive hex makes up the difference so there is no slop
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Old 12-04-2015, 08:58 AM   #708
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The spacer would go on the axle then put the axle into the hub/bearings. The drive hex makes up the difference so there is no slop
oh I thought it went on the front side. Thanks.
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Old 12-04-2015, 09:21 AM   #709
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What does that do for handling?
It should land a little better, and have more forward bite. We usually add/remove it based on driving style, and not so much track to track. Jake Thayer's posted setup has them in because he prefers the way they drive. I run without them, kit limiting and have not ever popped the bone out.

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Finally somebody answered this correctly. THANK YOU!!! I kept thinking to myself I don't care if the offset is different if I want to try a different tire for testing purposes. Nobody EVER said that the wheels will lock up because the hex on the rim rubs on the spindle. And I didn't figure that out till I actually tried it and found out for myself. They always say "the offset is different". I don't care about offset. But I do care if the wheels rub on the car.
The B5 front wheel off-set is WAY off and will make your car illegal at any race and drastically effect handling to the point that tire testing is a lost cause, whether it rubs or not, FYI.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:01 AM   #710
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The B5 front wheel off-set is WAY off and will make your car illegal at any race and drastically effect handling to the point that tire testing is a lost cause, whether it rubs or not, FYI.
I don't care if its legal to race or handles bad. Have you ever seen someone put short course tires on a buggy? Or touring car tires on a mini revo? people do strange things all the time weather its legal or not. Not everyone is going to use this buggy in regulated competition. That's misleading when someone is asking if the wheels interchange. 12mm hex to 12mm hex, why wont it work? They actually rub to a point where they don't even turn. So don't do it because of that. I thought offset schmoffset I'm going to try it anyway. I was thinking positive offset a few mm wouldn't hurt anything. But negative offset makes them not work at all. So "offset" is correct. I know you are supposed to guide people to the intended use of the car to get the most out of it. And you are not going to tell anyone how to use the car improperly. I just thought the other guys explanation of why they didn't work was better for guys who are going to try it anyway.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:06 AM   #711
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I don't care if its legal to race or handles bad. Have you ever seen someone put short course tires on a buggy? Or touring car tires on a mini revo? people do strange things all the time weather its legal or not. Not everyone is going to use this buggy in regulated competition. That's misleading when someone is asking if the wheels interchange. 12mm hex to 12mm hex, why wont it work? They actually rub to a point where they don't even turn. So don't do it because of that. I thought offset schmoffset I'm going to try it anyway. I was thinking positive offset a few mm wouldn't hurt anything. But negative offset makes them not work at all. So "offset" is correct. I know you are supposed to guide people to the intended use of the car to get the most out of it. And you are not going to tell anyone how to use the car improperly. I just thought the other guys explanation of why they didn't work was better for guys who are going to try it anyway.
Take it easy buddy, No reason to get butthurt over Frank's comment. He just telling us that the offset is wrong . What u decide to do with the car is ur business. And if j have b5m wheels why ask the questions. Just put them on for urself.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:10 AM   #712
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Not butt hurt at all, that's the beauty of reading text on a screen. I wasn't able to try it till recently. Then I noticed the other guys comment. And it was the same thing I discovered. Just trying to help others who are going to try this anyway.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:13 AM   #713
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Originally Posted by greener74 View Post
I don't care if its legal to race or handles bad. Have you ever seen someone put short course tires on a buggy? Or touring car tires on a mini revo? people do strange things all the time weather its legal or not. Not everyone is going to use this buggy in regulated competition. That's misleading when someone is asking if the wheels interchange. 12mm hex to 12mm hex, why wont it work? They actually rub to a point where they don't even turn. So don't do it because of that. I thought offset schmoffset I'm going to try it anyway. I was thinking positive offset a few mm wouldn't hurt anything. But negative offset makes them not work at all. So "offset" is correct. I know you are supposed to guide people to the intended use of the car to get the most out of it. And you are not going to tell anyone how to use the car improperly. I just thought the other guys explanation of why they didn't work was better for guys who are going to try it anyway.
I would say that 99% of the people who buy this car are going to use it in racing. You said something like what if I wanted to test a tread pattern that was on an AE wheel?...With the offset being as far off as it is when comparing a 22 rim to a B5 rim testing a tread pattern isn't even going to matter. The offset is drastic. Calm down. They don't fit, they weren't designed to be able to fit.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:16 AM   #714
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I don't care if its legal to race or handles bad. Have you ever seen someone put short course tires on a buggy? Or touring car tires on a mini revo? people do strange things all the time weather its legal or not. Not everyone is going to use this buggy in regulated competition. That's misleading when someone is asking if the wheels interchange. 12mm hex to 12mm hex, why wont it work? They actually rub to a point where they don't even turn. So don't do it because of that. I thought offset schmoffset I'm going to try it anyway. I was thinking positive offset a few mm wouldn't hurt anything. But negative offset makes them not work at all. So "offset" is correct. I know you are supposed to guide people to the intended use of the car to get the most out of it. And you are not going to tell anyone how to use the car improperly. I just thought the other guys explanation of why they didn't work was better for guys who are going to try it anyway.
Sorry about that. I assumed that most/all who bought the 22 3.0 were intending to use it in a track environment and likely race, but a poor assumption on my part.
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Old 12-04-2015, 11:06 AM   #715
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Take it easy buddy, No reason to get butthurt over Frank's comment. He just telling us that the offset is wrong . What u decide to do with the car is ur business. And if j have b5m wheels why ask the questions. Just put them on for urself.
Just because a wheel fits doesn't mean it's correct and you can't always tell by the eye., offset could be off just mm.
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Old 12-04-2015, 11:34 AM   #716
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Some people need to go look up what scrub radius is and it's effect on handling and then try to figure out how the same tread pattern is going to be tested with any validity between different offset wheels on the same vehicle.
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Old 12-04-2015, 11:46 AM   #717
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Some people need to go look up what scrub radius is and it's effect on handling and then try to figure out how the same tread pattern is going to be tested with any validity between different offset wheels on the same vehicle.
This guys is onto something
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Old 12-04-2015, 11:56 AM   #718
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Frank, how do the 12mm 3.0 front wheels compare to 4WD front wheels? Judging from what I saw on pictures, they seem to be pretty close.
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Old 12-04-2015, 11:57 AM   #719
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Frank, how do the 12mm 3.0 front wheels compare to 4WD front wheels? Judging from what I saw on pictures, they seem to be pretty close.
4wd wheels are a different width. As for the off-set, I am not 100% sure, we never checked since the widths are different already.
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Old 12-04-2015, 12:34 PM   #720
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4wd wheels are a different width. As for the off-set, I am not 100% sure, we never checked since the widths are different already.
So TLR wheels must be different. I just compared my Avid RC Satellite front wheels (B4/B5/RB5/RB6) to my Yokomo 4WD front wheels, and their width is exactly the same... I guess I'll have to get my hands on one of your kits for a review, so far I like what I've seen.
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