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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 12-02-2015, 08:31 PM   #646
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From the 3.0 manual:

The TLR Race Team has found that having the ability to tune the front suspension with different arm lengths has been very powerful for different track surfaces. Short VLA will provide a “softer” front end feel that has smoother steering on entrance and exit, but turns better mid-corner. Long VLA will provide a “stiffer” front end feel that has more entry and exit steering, but less mid-corner.
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:39 PM   #647
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Thanks Brian. I think I will try long arm tomorrow, if I understand correctly it will turn harder on entry and exit.
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:12 PM   #648
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Can anyone tell me how the car drives out of the box? Box set up ?
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:37 PM   #649
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Originally Posted by walterheard View Post
Can anyone tell me how the car drives out of the box? Box set up ?
The car drives very well out of the box with only minor setup tweaks. IMO the kit yellow rear springs are way soft. So stiffer rear springs and 2 hole 1.6 pistons and your ready to rock.
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:38 PM   #650
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If you have been running the 2.0 don't expect it to be too similar, it drives very different IMO
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:56 PM   #651
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Here's an assembly note worth mentioning.

When the front a-arms are properly installed the shoulder on the lead edge shoulder screw will protrude about 1 mm into the caster block, but if the arms are swapped (left to right) the shoulder will try to protrude into the trail edge hole and crack it. The lead edge caster block holes are molded to accept the shoulder, but the trail edge holes are not!

See attached pics to see how I screwed up!

Last edited by Matt M.; 03-11-2017 at 04:28 AM.
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:26 AM   #652
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I snagged the last one from trcr today, got it built and now all i need to do is solder it up and go racing.
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:32 AM   #653
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Originally Posted by STLNLST View Post
Losi messed up and let me get my hands on a kit😎 Racing will never be the same......in Norcal at least😄😄😄😄 I will be doing all my 2wd racing in 17.5 Seems that the majority so far have been running mod. Wanted to possibly test with pucks but the dog bones being out so far worries me a little. I will get a feel for the car with all the stock parts before changing some things. Happy racing to all this weekend.
That's what Losi wants they're new car in the B main!!! 👅
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Old 12-03-2015, 02:08 AM   #654
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I am a die hard AE fan and this car is just laughing at me and saying buy me. I will have to try one first👍🏼
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Old 12-03-2015, 05:03 AM   #655
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Originally Posted by sgtlt View Post
could someone please explain how the short or long arm front effects steering.
Roll centers are affected as well. Roll center moves up and down as the suspension rebounds and compresses. Shorter arms will cause the roll center to move more quickly. Longer arms will cause it to move more slowly.
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Old 12-03-2015, 05:36 AM   #656
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Originally Posted by bigdog View Post
That's what Losi wants they're new car in the B main!!! 👅
You know you want one
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Old 12-03-2015, 07:10 AM   #657
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I got to run my second club race with the 3.0 last night. Instead of running it just in mod I ran it in both stock and mod to get some more track time with it. I had to run the 17.5 in mod (in blinky mode to boot) because I didn't have enough time between heats to swap, which put me at a disadvantage of course but the track is layout is pretty technical and tight so the penalty is not too severe. The fastest guys are picking up maybe a few tenths with a mod motor.

In stock I qualified 3rd but finished only 6th mostly due to a marshalling mistake on the first lap (he put my car back down on the wrong side of the pipe and I lost 1/8 of a lap). I was dead last after the first lap but worked my way back. My fast lap was only a couple tenths slower than the winner.

And wouldn't you know I had much better performances in the mod heats. I won the B main with a 5 minute time that would have netted me second place in the A main in the company of some factory sponsored folks. I got the bump to the A main but I had to leave so I didn't run it.

My car felt better in the mains than in qualifying and the lap times agreed. I am not 100% sure why but here is one possibility. I discovered during the break between heats that there was way too much rebound in my shocks and I re-bled them. When I built them there was maybe a millimeter of rebound. When I checked them before the mains there was at least 10mm. Can someone explain why this happens? Is it air accumulating over time? Thermal expansion?

Here is another observation about the 3.0. When it gets out of shape in the rear I am finding it much easier to correct and hang on without spinning it. I can drive the car very aggressively. Almost to a fault because you get so confident you start blowing corners because you are in the throttle too much.

The only change from the kit setup I am running is the addition of 1mm of wheelbase in the rear (3mm in front of the hub, 1mm behind). Our track is a lot bumpier than what you find at OCRC/SDRC etc, and there are quite a few whoops. I feel like the car handles better with the extra wheelbase and the slight amount of forward bite lost is worth it. I was still pulling slight wheelies with a 17.5. The next thing I am going to try is a firmer spring in the rear like others have on higher bite. And FWIW I am running 30mm travel in the rear, 22mm in the front and a 23.5mm ride height front and back.

At this point I am not ready to say this car is way better than the competition but I seem to be faster with it. At least that is what the clock is telling me. And most importantly I am having a ton of fun with it. I bought another one to run in mod, which I am waiting patiently for Horizon to put in the mail
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Old 12-03-2015, 07:31 AM   #658
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Got mine Tuesday. Must say one of the easiest builds I ever did. Just gotta build the shocks and put the electronics in. The new tunability of the car really impressed me. Can't wait for the maiden run with it this weekend.
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Old 12-03-2015, 08:55 AM   #659
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Bravo TLR. I finished the build last night and it went together really well. I did also run into tight front castor blocks in the arms, but that should free up after a battery pack or two. I did not have any stripping or screw problems like people have been saying. Every screw snugged up just right.
One thing I did run into was a tight front arm on the inner pivot. It was a simple fix. The molding on my plastic 25 degree kick shim overhung the front pivot block ever so slightly. This caused the front pin brace to not sit flush with the pivot block. This created bind in the pins. I sanded the kick shim just a touch to make it sit flush with the inner pivot block and problem was resolved.

Thank you again TLR and Horizon. I can't wait to try the car this weekend.
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Old 12-03-2015, 09:06 AM   #660
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Originally Posted by MrLean View Post
Will the battery mounting system work with the new low-cg shortys? I'm wondering how far down the adjustment screw thingys go. I'll obv have to put some sort of foam between the strap and the battery to fill the gap, but hopefully won't have to put some in front and back of it, the new screw adjustments look awesome. Kit is ordered, can't wait!
Anyone know this answer?
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