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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

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Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 11-23-2015, 09:53 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by motorcitymatt View Post
I recently had one of these kits sent up by someone in Australia and I finished building it the other night. For those waiting for theirs to arrive in the next couple of weeks I thought it might be helpful to share some of my thoughts and experiences when building the kit. And FWIW I thought some feedback for Frank and TLR might be of some value.

These days I am actively club racing with both Schumacher and Associated rigs and have been quite happy and competitive with both. This kit really got my attention for two reasons. First, because unlike the 22 2.0 I really feel the focus on a "no compromises" mid-motor design has resulted in a much cleaner implementation and hopefully a performance sweet spot centered on the types of surfaces we run on here in the States. Early results I have seen suggest this is the case. Second, after reviewing the features and now having built it I don't think there is anything this car needs to be extremely competitive right out of the box. Not a thing. I built it completely box stock with the exception of using a caged ceramic thrust bearing in the diff and installing an aluminum servo horn. These two things are really just maintenance and durability nit picks on my part anyway.

In terms of assembly I think the kit went together extremely well minus a few little things. Pay attention to the screws going through the bushings in the steering arms as to not tighten these down too much. I found that going a little too snug on these introduced some binding. I also got some minor binding I had to deal with in the suspension arm pivots in both front and back. Some very light reaming took care of that and no slop was added in doing so. I experienced further binding in the castor block pivots in the front arms but I think that I may have not threaded them in perfectly straight at first. It appears to be quite sensitive to alignment so be careful here (Step B-3). Lastly, there was a little rubbing going on between the corner of the rear arms and the edges of the pivot pin hanger where there is a tight clearance between them. I removed a very small amount of material from the arms there and it made them completely free.

Let me pause here to say that I would much rather deal with a little binding than have parts which have a lot of slop. It is a lot easier to remove a little a material than to add it so I am glad TLR decided to favor that side (if that was even their intention).

Aside from some things fitting a little tightly the only other thing that was a little difficult was getting the pivot pin hanger in front of the gearbox installed when putting the arm assemblies into it with the rear hanger already in place on step C-7. It is easier if you keep the screws loose in the rear hanger while you are doing this step so you have a little wiggle room. Once everything is in place you can cinch things down.

Overall I was really impressed with the fit and finish of the whole kit. There is a high degree of precision throughout and there is very little play in anything. The plastics in the kit have a nice durable and more expensive feel to them and I appreciated that there was nothing I had to trim flash off of or cut out of a group of molded parts. Everything was clearly labeled and grouped and I was not missing a single part. The kit also included a turnbuckle wrench, a combination nut driver, greases, thread lock, shock oil, servo tape, velcro pieces and a nice little pair of molded tools to help hold on to the ends of the shock assemblies as you tighten or loosen the caps during assembly or maintenance. A nice touch.

I think the true stand out for me on this kit was the shock package. I have never built Kyosho shocks and I know many consider them to be the "reference" but these shocks have to be as good or better than anything out there in 1/10th scale. The machining / laser etching on the bodies, high quality springs, high-grade coating on the rods, x-rings, machined pistons and seal bushings all add up to a really well-executed product. They did a really nice job here.

The kit's manual comes printed in a large size easy to read format with a nice cardstock cover. The illustrations are clear and accurate. I understand the motivation to not have to print manuals in many different languages and rely more on symbols and illustrations for a product with global scope. And for the most part this is not an issue at all but there are some cases where it might have been nice to have a little more verbiage and written clarification on some of the steps. And the presence of all the other languages on the pages makes it feel cramped and hard to find what I am looking for. Also, the manual leaves out details (while admittedly fairly obvious) about the use of some of the tuning parts in the kit and how to attach the optional fin to the body. Some setup details such as shock travel are missing as others have pointed out but all in all these are minor complaints. The fact that TLR has someone like Frank who is deeply involved in product development dedicated to spending some time answering questions and addressing issues from the public really makes this a non-issue anyway.

Here are some other things I liked about the kit:
  • Pre-cut body
  • TWO sets of wheels in the box
  • Lots of room for electronics
  • Common size bearings should be cheap to replace as they wear (most are 10x5x4)
  • Beefy 4mm turnbuckles with a nice chrome finish
  • My car weighs in at 1566 fully loaded, getting down to legal weight for stock should be easy
  • The battery retaining system is flexible and easy to adjust
  • The shocks!

And some possible areas of improvement:
  • Replace the bushings in the steering rack with bearings
  • Add holes to the ball cups to allow access to the ball stud without having to pop the cups off
  • Aluminum front camber link mount to match the one in the rear

I don't have anything to say about performance or durability yet but she hits the track on Wednesday so I will soon. Can't wait!

@Frank & TLR: Thanks for all of your hard work and effort on the 3.0. The kit itself is something to be proud of.
Thank you for the honest and fair feedback. IMO, the most impressive part of your experience won't start until you get on the track

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Originally Posted by STLNLST View Post
I hope parts cone along with the kits. Mainly front wheels as we all need to glue up new kicks since these B5 rims are paper weights now.....lol.
Parts will ship within a couple of days of the kit. What is comes down to, is that the kit is QC'd and ushered into a stock location with priority over the parts. The only parts not here now are the 4-gear transmission cases, we had to make a last minute modification to nail this part. They will be coming very shortly.
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Old 11-24-2015, 12:09 AM   #392
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I got an email from amain notifying me that my pre-order was cancelled and that only paid backorders will be valid. I attempted to do that but it processed another pre-order (my account now shows 2ll. I was not offered any mechanism to pay. I am concerned that II may have lost my place in "line".

I just saw your post and hurriedly went to my email account and verified they pulled the same crap with me. Too late to call at this point but if they dumped me off the pre-order list, of which I got on shortly after it went live on their site, it will be the last thing I bother to order from them. I bypassed my local retailer due to feeling Amain would be the safer bet to get a launch kit shipped the day it was received...

I don't think they can even ask for anything more than a deposit on inventory they do not have in their possession, at least in CA.
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Old 11-24-2015, 12:33 AM   #393
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I hope parts cone along with the kits. Mainly front wheels as we all need to glue up new kicks since these B5 rims are paper weights now.....lol.
I've put the hex's from my old 2.0 in the front so I can still run my old front wheels for now.

One thing I would have liked is for the Chassis protector sheet to be available straight up, the Aust dealer doesn't have them so I have to scratch up this pretty new chassis, by the time it is available you get to the "What's the point?" stage!
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Old 11-24-2015, 03:31 AM   #394
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I've put the hex's from my old 2.0 in the front so I can still run my old front wheels for now.

One thing I would have liked is for the Chassis protector sheet to be available straight up, the Aust dealer doesn't have them so I have to scratch up this pretty new chassis, by the time it is available you get to the "What's the point?" stage!
Buy the associated protector sheet and cut yourself. It is a very thick chassis protector and I have it on all my Lodi cars.
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Old 11-24-2015, 04:19 AM   #395
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RandyJones,

When you moved the front shocks to outer hole, did you only move the bottom or upper, or both. Or did you move it out using the VLA options?
We just moved the shock out on the arm to outer hole. Left everything else same. We went back to same track this past weekend and did same thing. We also went up to 32.5 oil in rear and LF Pink rear springs to help free back end up. The ONLY issue we are having is I can't figure out how to keep the car from wheelieing!! This track is mega grip and it's a learning curve. We are over an hour away and with Tyler in school we can't get over there on a practice day to test. We are learning on the fly during a race day. Even with slipper extremely loose, it will pull front end up. We wanted a 2wd with traction and we definitely have it. Going to another track we haven't been to with the 3.0 this weekend that's a low-medium clay so the car will be spot on there.
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Old 11-24-2015, 04:49 AM   #396
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I've put the hex's from my old 2.0 in the front so I can still run my old front wheels for now.

One thing I would have liked is for the Chassis protector sheet to be available straight up, the Aust dealer doesn't have them so I have to scratch up this pretty new chassis, by the time it is available you get to the "What's the point?" stage!
At least you have that option.....lol
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Old 11-24-2015, 05:01 AM   #397
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Let's hear a measurement on front and rear wheel backspace.
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Old 11-24-2015, 06:33 AM   #398
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We just moved the shock out on the arm to outer hole. Left everything else same. We went back to same track this past weekend and did same thing. We also went up to 32.5 oil in rear and LF Pink rear springs to help free back end up. The ONLY issue we are having is I can't figure out how to keep the car from wheelieing!! This track is mega grip and it's a learning curve. We are over an hour away and with Tyler in school we can't get over there on a practice day to test. We are learning on the fly during a race day. Even with slipper extremely loose, it will pull front end up. We wanted a 2wd with traction and we definitely have it. Going to another track we haven't been to with the 3.0 this weekend that's a low-medium clay so the car will be spot on there.
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Old 11-24-2015, 07:17 AM   #399
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No, JCP Raceway in Indianapolis,IN. We raced the 2.0 there a lot but have yet to get the 3.0 there.
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Old 11-24-2015, 07:33 AM   #400
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Parts will ship within a couple of days of the kit. What is comes down to, is that the kit is QC'd and ushered into a stock location with priority over the parts. The only parts not here now are the 4-gear transmission cases, we had to make a last minute modification to nail this part. They will be coming very shortly.
So what I am getting out of that is everything is here and we are just waiting on stuff to be checked in then shipped. So not even a freak customs or harbor strike can delay them now.
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Old 11-24-2015, 08:43 AM   #401
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Originally Posted by RandyJones View Post
We just moved the shock out on the arm to outer hole. Left everything else same. We went back to same track this past weekend and did same thing. We also went up to 32.5 oil in rear and LF Pink rear springs to help free back end up. The ONLY issue we are having is I can't figure out how to keep the car from wheelieing!! This track is mega grip and it's a learning curve. We are over an hour away and with Tyler in school we can't get over there on a practice day to test. We are learning on the fly during a race day. Even with slipper extremely loose, it will pull front end up. We wanted a 2wd with traction and we definitely have it. Going to another track we haven't been to with the 3.0 this weekend that's a low-medium clay so the car will be spot on there.
Thanks for the clarification, have you tried moving the battery forward a touch? Not sure how this will affect other areas of the track though.
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Old 11-24-2015, 08:45 AM   #402
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I called Amain about the canceled back orders. Told them I had a pre order not a back order as it did not matter as this is the new way they going to do pre orders and back orders from now on with no ship date given. Now Horizon wants your credit card number before you can pre order also with no ship date.
It is starting to sound like all amain and horizon wants is our money without any products be shipped out to us.
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Old 11-24-2015, 08:47 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by nexxus View Post
I've put the hex's from my old 2.0 in the front so I can still run my old front wheels for now.

One thing I would have liked is for the Chassis protector sheet to be available straight up, the Aust dealer doesn't have them so I have to scratch up this pretty new chassis, by the time it is available you get to the "What's the point?" stage!
TLR has the chassis protectors for the 22 3.0 ready and shipping soon.

TLR331017 - http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Def...odID=TLR331017

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So what I am getting out of that is everything is here and we are just waiting on stuff to be checked in then shipped. So not even a freak customs or harbor strike can delay them now.
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Old 11-24-2015, 08:54 AM   #404
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I called Amain about the canceled back orders. Told them I had a pre order not a back order as it did not matter as this is the new way they going to do pre orders and back orders from now on with no ship date given. Now Horizon wants your credit card number before you can pre order also with no ship date.
It is starting to sound like all amain and horizon wants is our money without any products be shipped out to us.
I have preordered all my tlr kits from horizon (fastest way to get them) You have to give them a credit card like any other order but nothing is charged tell it ships just like any normal order. I have had zero issues ever doing it this way if that helps you out any
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Old 11-24-2015, 09:01 AM   #405
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Originally Posted by sksdean View Post
I called Amain about the canceled back orders. Told them I had a pre order not a back order as it did not matter as this is the new way they going to do pre orders and back orders from now on with no ship date given. Now Horizon wants your credit card number before you can pre order also with no ship date.
It is starting to sound like all amain and horizon wants is our money without any products be shipped out to us.
They charge your CC when the item ships, not when you back-order it.
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