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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 11-23-2015, 03:23 PM   #376
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when will the light weight body be available for sale?
There will be some available within a few days of when the kit ships.

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Frank
Do we have an exact ship date yet for the horizon preorders?
Can't say exactly yet, but things are looking good
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Old 11-23-2015, 03:47 PM   #377
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hope i get it soon happy to hear it shipping soon my sell the b 5 m light
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Old 11-23-2015, 04:21 PM   #378
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Frank
Do we have an exact ship date yet for the horizon preorders?
FWIW

A-main still shows 4 Dec. Less than 2 weeks!!!!!
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Old 11-23-2015, 04:40 PM   #379
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Changes from kit setup: moved front shocks to outer hole on arms to calm steering, moved rear hubs back 1mm and went through rough better.
RandyJones,

When you moved the front shocks to outer hole, did you only move the bottom or upper, or both. Or did you move it out using the VLA options?
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Old 11-23-2015, 05:52 PM   #380
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Can't say exactly yet, but things are looking good
From what I was just told lots of people will be very happy, soon...

I'm curious as to Maifield's current indoor high traction setup. With the big Nashville race coming up I may be swapping shocks in and tossing in my pre built diff to get on the track sooner. So, his shock setup would give me a good head start.
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Old 11-23-2015, 06:17 PM   #381
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Frank, will the entire ball bearing set from the 22 2.0 buggy fit the new 3.0 buggy? More specifically, I have ceramic bearings in my current 2.0 buggy. Can I swap all the bearings into the new 3.0 kit or are there different sized bearings used in the new kit?
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Old 11-23-2015, 07:38 PM   #382
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Frank, will the entire ball bearing set from the 22 2.0 buggy fit the new 3.0 buggy? More specifically, I have ceramic bearings in my current 2.0 buggy. Can I swap all the bearings into the new 3.0 kit or are there different sized bearings used in the new kit?
Yes, it is the same.

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From what I was just told lots of people will be very happy, soon...

I'm curious as to Maifield's current indoor high traction setup. With the big Nashville race coming up I may be swapping shocks in and tossing in my pre built diff to get on the track sooner. So, his shock setup would give me a good head start.
I have Dustin's setup from the Horizon Hobby Race going up soon as our web team gets to it

The kit setup is really good, I'd just start there, but change to 32.5wt rear oil.
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Old 11-23-2015, 07:44 PM   #383
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Frank
Your changing the rear to 32.5 wt but leaving 30wt in the front.
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Old 11-23-2015, 07:50 PM   #384
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Frank
Your changing the rear to 32.5 wt but leaving 30wt in the front.
Yes
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Old 11-23-2015, 08:17 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Frank Root View Post
I have Dustin's setup from the Horizon Hobby Race going up soon as our web team gets to it

The kit setup is really good, I'd just start there, but change to 32.5wt rear oil.
Excellent, thanks Frank!
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Old 11-23-2015, 08:20 PM   #386
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can you make it in to a rear motor car
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Old 11-23-2015, 08:27 PM   #387
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can you make it in to a rear motor car
No, this car is dedicated mid motor.
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Old 11-23-2015, 09:29 PM   #388
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Default TLR 22 3.0 Mini-Review

I recently had one of these kits sent up by someone in Australia and I finished building it the other night. For those waiting for theirs to arrive in the next couple of weeks I thought it might be helpful to share some of my thoughts and experiences when building the kit. And FWIW I thought some feedback for Frank and TLR might be of some value.

These days I am actively club racing with both Schumacher and Associated rigs and have been quite happy and competitive with both. This kit really got my attention for two reasons. First, because unlike the 22 2.0 I really feel the focus on a "no compromises" mid-motor design has resulted in a much cleaner implementation and hopefully a performance sweet spot centered on the types of surfaces we run on here in the States. Early results I have seen suggest this is the case. Second, after reviewing the features and now having built it I don't think there is anything this car needs to be extremely competitive right out of the box. Not a thing. I built it completely box stock with the exception of using a caged ceramic thrust bearing in the diff and installing an aluminum servo horn. These two things are really just maintenance and durability nit picks on my part anyway.

In terms of assembly I think the kit went together extremely well minus a few little things. Pay attention to the screws going through the bushings in the steering arms as to not tighten these down too much. I found that going a little too snug on these introduced some binding. I also got some minor binding I had to deal with in the suspension arm pivots in both front and back. Some very light reaming took care of that and no slop was added in doing so. I experienced further binding in the castor block pivots in the front arms but I think that I may have not threaded them in perfectly straight at first. It appears to be quite sensitive to alignment so be careful here (Step B-3). Lastly, there was a little rubbing going on between the corner of the rear arms and the edges of the pivot pin hanger where there is a tight clearance between them. I removed a very small amount of material from the arms there and it made them completely free.

Let me pause here to say that I would much rather deal with a little binding than have parts which have a lot of slop. It is a lot easier to remove a little a material than to add it so I am glad TLR decided to favor that side (if that was even their intention).

Aside from some things fitting a little tightly the only other thing that was a little difficult was getting the pivot pin hanger in front of the gearbox installed when putting the arm assemblies into it with the rear hanger already in place on step C-7. It is easier if you keep the screws loose in the rear hanger while you are doing this step so you have a little wiggle room. Once everything is in place you can cinch things down.

Overall I was really impressed with the fit and finish of the whole kit. There is a high degree of precision throughout and there is very little play in anything. The plastics in the kit have a nice durable and more expensive feel to them and I appreciated that there was nothing I had to trim flash off of or cut out of a group of molded parts. Everything was clearly labeled and grouped and I was not missing a single part. The kit also included a turnbuckle wrench, a combination nut driver, greases, thread lock, shock oil, servo tape, velcro pieces and a nice little pair of molded tools to help hold on to the ends of the shock assemblies as you tighten or loosen the caps during assembly or maintenance. A nice touch.

I think the true stand out for me on this kit was the shock package. I have never built Kyosho shocks and I know many consider them to be the "reference" but these shocks have to be as good or better than anything out there in 1/10th scale. The machining / laser etching on the bodies, high quality springs, high-grade coating on the rods, x-rings, machined pistons and seal bushings all add up to a really well-executed product. They did a really nice job here.

The kit's manual comes printed in a large size easy to read format with a nice cardstock cover. The illustrations are clear and accurate. I understand the motivation to not have to print manuals in many different languages and rely more on symbols and illustrations for a product with global scope. And for the most part this is not an issue at all but there are some cases where it might have been nice to have a little more verbiage and written clarification on some of the steps. And the presence of all the other languages on the pages makes it feel cramped and hard to find what I am looking for. Also, the manual leaves out details (while admittedly fairly obvious) about the use of some of the tuning parts in the kit and how to attach the optional fin to the body. Some setup details such as shock travel are missing as others have pointed out but all in all these are minor complaints. The fact that TLR has someone like Frank who is deeply involved in product development dedicated to spending some time answering questions and addressing issues from the public really makes this a non-issue anyway.

Here are some other things I liked about the kit:
  • Pre-cut body
  • TWO sets of wheels in the box
  • Lots of room for electronics
  • Common size bearings should be cheap to replace as they wear (most are 10x5x4)
  • Beefy 4mm turnbuckles with a nice chrome finish
  • My car weighs in at 1566 fully loaded, getting down to legal weight for stock should be easy
  • The battery retaining system is flexible and easy to adjust
  • The shocks!

And some possible areas of improvement:
  • Replace the bushings in the steering rack with bearings
  • Add holes to the ball cups to allow access to the ball stud without having to pop the cups off
  • Aluminum front camber link mount to match the one in the rear

I don't have anything to say about performance or durability yet but she hits the track on Wednesday so I will soon. Can't wait!

@Frank & TLR: Thanks for all of your hard work and effort on the 3.0. The kit itself is something to be proud of.
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Last edited by Matt M.; 03-11-2017 at 04:28 AM.
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Old 11-23-2015, 09:36 PM   #389
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FWIW

A-main still shows 4 Dec. Less than 2 weeks!!!!!
I got an email from amain notifying me that my pre-order was cancelled and that only paid backorders will be valid. I attempted to do that but it processed another pre-order (my account now shows 2ll. I was not offered any mechanism to pay. I am concerned that II may have lost my place in "line".
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Old 11-23-2015, 09:37 PM   #390
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I hope parts cone along with the kits. Mainly front wheels as we all need to glue up new kicks since these B5 rims are paper weights now.....lol.
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