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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 11-21-2016, 09:26 PM   #3796
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I had the same problem with my no lay down 22 3.0... couldn't get much below 24mm ride height out of the rear with the stiffer springs for carpet. I finally ended up removing the rear shock collars completely and let them ride on the shock caps. This set the rear ride height around 17-18 mm and no more traction rolling!

I know the other option is to use the lay down kit which is designed for carpet and low ride height, but I am not so keen on the price.

Also for the front, I moved the spindles all the way up (2 mm upper spacer and no lower spacer) and also made the HRC mod to the front pivot and used the stiffer TLR front blue springs which are slightly shorter than the softer springs.
My buddy at my local track also put all his spacers on the top of the spindles. He said he had to grind some on the spindle. I will remove the shock collars. I can't get the front to lower either, maybe I'll take the collars of the front also.

I can't afford the lay down kit right now.
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Old 11-21-2016, 10:20 PM   #3797
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Those are the same as stock they are only longer on the inside to hold the spring from popping off. Unless I'm wrong, they are the Losi ones.
Are you sure those shock retainers on the front aren't AE or some other brand? They look kinda pinched on the bottom in the last pic. They should slide on and off smoothly without a spring.
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:38 AM   #3798
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Few ideas:

1.) Check that the nut securing the top shock bodies mounts (both front & rear) aren't binding and the shock bodies are free moving (has some play) and the bottom as well.

2.) Are the o-ring over compressed by the bottom shock caps during initial assembly causing excessive siction (snugged down tighter than necessary?)

3.) You may have to re-bleed the shock to zero rebound again perhaps at the track. (they could build pressure back up after the first time, I.e. shaft pushes back out far)

Let us know if that helped or was it.
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Old 11-22-2016, 04:48 AM   #3799
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Try the spring cups from the kit. I believe those are too tall, giving you extra ride height. Also I agree with the others about making sure your shocks move freely on the top, make sure nothing is binding. If you remove the screw on the bottom of the shock holding it to the arm, the shock should swing freely on the top shaft.
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Old 11-22-2016, 04:53 AM   #3800
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By the way, I know the laydown kit is a little expensive. I put it off for a while too, but it really is the way to go for carpet. It makes a huge difference in how easy it is to drive. Turned me from a mid-pack guy to qualifying 2nd and finishing 3rd the first time out with it. Out of a field of 14 with 9 racers all at 19 laps, only me and the TQ hit 20 laps.
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Old 11-22-2016, 06:46 AM   #3801
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BTW, the laydown conversion is currently 15% off at Amain right now. Still not cheap, but that's a decent amount off.
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Old 11-22-2016, 07:34 AM   #3802
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By the way, I know the laydown kit is a little expensive. I put it off for a while too, but it really is the way to go for carpet. It makes a huge difference in how easy it is to drive. Turned me from a mid-pack guy to qualifying 2nd and finishing 3rd the first time out with it. Out of a field of 14 with 9 racers all at 19 laps, only me and the TQ hit 20 laps.

I know but I just missed 2 months of work "bad heart" so I'm broke.

I'm about 1.5 seconds off of the guys with the laydown. If I can get it lower and have less traction roll I can push it harder.

Last edited by LosiMadMan; 11-22-2016 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 11-22-2016, 07:44 AM   #3803
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I'm currently running a b6 lay down car with a ball diff on a hard packed indoor track with med-high bite depending on how much the track is wet. I recently won a 22 3.0 in a raffle and curious how it might do at the track as is without the lay down conversion.
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Old 11-22-2016, 07:47 AM   #3804
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Originally Posted by Callaway View Post
Try the spring cups from the kit. I believe those are too tall, giving you extra ride height. Also I agree with the others about making sure your shocks move freely on the top, make sure nothing is binding. If you remove the screw on the bottom of the shock holding it to the arm, the shock should swing freely on the top shaft.
The shock caps have the same spring hight as the stock cups. The are +4mm on the inside to keep the spring from popping out of position.

There is no binding.
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Old 11-22-2016, 08:21 AM   #3805
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Frank what part number is the brass block your using? Also part number on the shock Springs? Thanks for your time
I was using the Exotek block. AE white front springs, and Yokomo Green rear springs.
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Old 11-22-2016, 11:14 AM   #3806
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the talk about getting the ride height lower on a stand up gear buggy.... from the pics it looks like you have the tall +4 mm spring cups installed front and back and that could be one problem, plus TLR LF springs are a little taller then say a Yokomo Yatabe arena spring or an Avid spring. Plus you should raise your front spindle up to 2 mm on top and that will help with the ride height. I have a laydown and a stand up buggy and both I can get at 19mm with no problem with the correct springs and spring cups.
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Old 11-22-2016, 12:44 PM   #3807
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the talk about getting the ride height lower on a stand up gear buggy.... from the pics it looks like you have the tall +4 mm spring cups installed front and back and that could be one problem, plus TLR LF springs are a little taller then say a Yokomo Yatabe arena spring or an Avid spring. Plus you should raise your front spindle up to 2 mm on top and that will help with the ride height. I have a laydown and a stand up buggy and both I can get at 19mm with no problem with the correct springs and spring cups.
I need to go home and measure the cups but the +4mm is the inside of the cup not the area that the spring rests on.This keeps the spring from popping out of the cup.

I will have to go check this when I get home, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

I'm often wrong though...
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Old 11-22-2016, 02:04 PM   #3808
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Is anyone running the TLR aluminum steering setup? If so, did you find the bell cranks needed some extra shimming to eliminate vertical slop?
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Old 11-22-2016, 02:15 PM   #3809
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Originally Posted by LosiMadMan View Post
I need to go home and measure the cups but the +4mm is the inside of the cup not the area that the spring rests on.This keeps the spring from popping out of the cup.

I will have to go check this when I get home, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

I'm often wrong though...
+4mm cup spaces the spring up, the cup itself is 4mm taller...it's not measuring the part that the spring rides on.

https://www.amainhobbies.com/team-lo...233021/p475090
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:33 PM   #3810
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+4mm cup spaces the spring up, the cup itself is 4mm taller...it's not measuring the part that the spring rides on.

https://www.amainhobbies.com/team-lo...233021/p475090

Alright then
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