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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 11-20-2016, 02:35 PM   #3781
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So any takers?
Can you snap some pictures and post them? That might help us figure out what is wrong.
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Old 11-20-2016, 03:52 PM   #3782
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So any takers?
What springs are you running? There's really no reason why you can't go lower than 24 unless something is wrong.
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Old 11-21-2016, 04:54 AM   #3783
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So any takers?
I'm with K_King on this one...I'm thinking springs.

How long are your springs when not mounted? Are you possibly running truck springs on the buggy shocks?

-W
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Old 11-21-2016, 07:26 AM   #3784
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As shown in the manuals -

Short VLA = inside hole caster block and inside hole arm.
Long VLA = outside holes caster block and outside hole arm.
Do you see what I was referring to about the pictures of the new truck though? It appeared to be set up in short VLA configuration but with the screws in the outside holes on the a-arm.
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Last edited by Matt M.; 03-11-2017 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 11-21-2016, 07:30 AM   #3785
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Do you see what I was referring to about the pictures of the new truck though? It appeared to be set up in short VLA configuration but with the screws in the outside holes on the a-arm.
That picture has long vla in both holes.
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Old 11-21-2016, 07:34 AM   #3786
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Thank you, for some reason I was changing the width of the vehicle in my head along with the arm length. Cannot explain why. Finally had the "ah ha" moment.
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Old 11-21-2016, 09:49 AM   #3787
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I can't get my 3.0 to lower. I run on carpet with small jumps, and I traction roll real bad. My ride hight is about 24 and I can't get it to lower. I'm running 35wt and 30 oil in the rear, shock collars all the way up, red spring front and rear. Shock built dead. I put a large square pack in and it lowered some but not enough. Another local racer has his lower than mine and I showed him. He can't figure it out either. Help
I had a similar issue on a 2.0 buggy I purchased used. Turns out the previous owner had the wrong oring seals in the shocks and they were pulling in air when compressed. This caused the shocks to build up pressure internally, adding more spring force to the shock action.

Checking/replacing your oring seals would be my first step.
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Old 11-21-2016, 09:57 AM   #3788
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So any takers?
sorry duplicate post...

Last edited by jmitchell; 11-22-2016 at 06:22 AM.
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Old 11-21-2016, 10:11 AM   #3789
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Frank or anyone, first let me say I have quite a bit invested in tlr. I have the 22-4 2.0, 22t 2.0 and 22 3.0 with the laydown and dirt tranny. I will also say I have another laydown car as well, a xray xb2 carpet car. Now I don't race on carpet, run on medium bite clay. I'm really struggling with the 3.0 laydown. I love the steering the car has and the way it rotates. But the car just feels nervous and loose. Setup I have now is Gray associated front spring, Lf white rear spring. 1.6 pistons fron and 1.7 rear, 32.5 front oil, 30 rear to start. The xray car to me is much more planted and stable and has about the same amount of steering as the 3.0. So yeah I'm used to driving a laydown car. I want the losi to work. I don't like running mixed brands. Other losi guys at my track are running stand up and laydown and a losi laydown won today. I tried some suggestions they suggested and it just didn't seem to help. Now I will say my rear diff is pretty tight, not sure of that has anything to do with it. One thing that was suggested I have not tried yet is going to a 2 tooth smaller spur gear to get the motor back just a tick, and running the servo on the back of the aluminum servo mounts.
Try this FULL setup. Make sure to nail all of the details. Then report back and we'll see if you're happier and where we can help you get from there.

http://www.tlracing.com/ProdInfo/Fil...2016-10-10.pdf
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Old 11-21-2016, 02:52 PM   #3790
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I'm with K_King on this one...I'm thinking springs.

How long are your springs when not mounted? Are you possibly running truck springs on the buggy shocks?

-W

Well since my stupid phone won't let me multi quote.

Yes I will post pictures

Losi 22 buggy red springs front and back.
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Old 11-21-2016, 05:58 PM   #3791
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Frank what part number is the brass block your using? Also part number on the shock Springs? Thanks for your time
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Old 11-21-2016, 07:10 PM   #3792
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Here are the pictures, remember I'm trying to get it to lower. The battery is in the buggy.






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Old 11-21-2016, 07:50 PM   #3793
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Can you use different spring cup/retainers? The rear especially could benefit from that.

Also, I find AE springs to be shorter, especially the fronts.
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Old 11-21-2016, 09:05 PM   #3794
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Can you use different spring cup/retainers? The rear especially could benefit from that.

Also, I find AE springs to be shorter, especially the fronts.
Those are the same as stock they are only longer on the inside to hold the spring from popping off. Unless I'm wrong, they are the Losi ones.
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Old 11-21-2016, 09:08 PM   #3795
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I had the same problem with my no lay down 22 3.0... couldn't get much below 24mm ride height out of the rear with the stiffer springs for carpet. I finally ended up removing the rear shock collars completely and let them ride on the shock caps. This set the rear ride height around 17-18 mm and no more traction rolling!

I know the other option is to use the lay down kit which is designed for carpet and low ride height, but I am not so keen on the price.

Also for the front, I moved the spindles all the way up (2 mm upper spacer and no lower spacer) and also made the HRC mod to the front pivot and used the stiffer TLR front blue springs which are slightly shorter than the softer springs.
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