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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 10-03-2016, 05:31 AM   #3571
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Is it possible to peice together a "dirt laydown kit"? Instead of buying the full laydown kit? I feel a lot of money is wasted in not using the transmission case,motor plate and rear aluminum hubs in the initial laydown kit.
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Old 10-03-2016, 09:01 AM   #3572
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Originally Posted by dbracn View Post
Frank or anyone, with the dirt laydown conversion, are most people running the brass front block or aluminum hubs?
No brass in front, and no aluminum hubs. Some guys run the aluminum hubs for durability, but I wouldn't run them if you are not having issues breaking the molded hubs.

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Originally Posted by Chad_R40 View Post
Is it possible to peice together a "dirt laydown kit"? Instead of buying the full laydown kit? I feel a lot of money is wasted in not using the transmission case,motor plate and rear aluminum hubs in the initial laydown kit.
No, not currently.

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Originally Posted by Matt M. View Post
2 questions for Frank,

1, what effect does running the spindle shims like dakotah does have on the handling

2, my dirt laydown is loud. i mean really loud...i hae cleaned and greased the gears, it has done it since i got it, i have changed the sour gear and the pinion gear, i expect some noise with the metal on metal gears, but this squeel is something, my car is noticably louder than other cars at the track.

Ideas??

as always, thank you
1. It raises the front roll center if you adjust the shock length to keep the droop correct. If you don't adjust the droop, then you're changing roll center and limiting front droop/travel, which both change the car.

2. I've seen some cases that have the bearing fits, or idler pin fits a little on the looser side. Use a hobby knife, and put some "score" marks in those bores, so the bearings and idler shaft will fit snugly. And, if running mod, don't be shy with the black grease.

I think part of it is just the nature of the material. If you don't a delrin case on the table, then a molded 3-gear, the 3-gear will sound a lot "deader", which is probably the case with how the gear noise is handled on the track also.
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Old 10-03-2016, 09:17 AM   #3573
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[QUOTE=Frank Root;14690885]
It raises the front roll center if you adjust the shock length to keep the droop correct. If you don't adjust the droop, then you're changing roll center and limiting front droop/travel, which both change the car.




Frank... what are you changing the shock length to when you are raising the front spindle up?
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Old 10-03-2016, 09:26 AM   #3574
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[QUOTE=skoalisbad4me;14690908]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Root View Post
It raises the front roll center if you adjust the shock length to keep the droop correct. If you don't adjust the droop, then you're changing roll center and limiting front droop/travel, which both change the car.




Frank... what are you changing the shock length to when you are raising the front spindle up?
It depends on the shock location. Usually around .5mm longer.
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Old 10-03-2016, 01:44 PM   #3575
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Finally pulled the trigger on the laydown for my carpet rig. I was running the HRC front and rear, so I'll keep the HRC up front and go back to kit LRC in rear. I was running 21 mm ride height because geometry in the rear didn't like going much lower than that. I'm going to drop down to 19 mm as a starting point. Other than that, should I start with the same setup I was running before? Same shock package, shock locations, camber link locations, etc... Or should I just start from scratch at one of the TLR team setups from the web site?
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Old 10-03-2016, 03:25 PM   #3576
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Finally pulled the trigger on the laydown for my carpet rig. I was running the HRC front and rear, so I'll keep the HRC up front and go back to kit LRC in rear. I was running 21 mm ride height because geometry in the rear didn't like going much lower than that. I'm going to drop down to 19 mm as a starting point. Other than that, should I start with the same setup I was running before? Same shock package, shock locations, camber link locations, etc... Or should I just start from scratch at one of the TLR team setups from the web site?
I'd probably suggest starting with Dustin's setup from Northwest Hobbies.
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:46 PM   #3577
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Frank. I bought my car maybe 3 weeks ago and the car was on the loose side so I decided to purchase the 4 gear tranny. Whe I took the 3gear tranny out the car I noticed it spin free. I took out the diff and idler gear and put case back together and still binding. Made sure the screws weren't hitting the slipper plate. When I took the slipper off the idle would spin super free. So I decided to say with the 3 gear and put it backer together and reset the slipper and everything smooth and free.
This weekend I ran the buggy and it was great. In my main I got hit by someone and everytime I let off the throttle it would spin out so I could not finish. I came back to the pit and was up in 10 minutes for my other main. I took the pinion off and again tranny bound up. I did the same thing real quick, took off the slipper car was free put it back on and pinion back on and was able to finish my main and the car was fast. Any help. Thanks
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Old 10-03-2016, 05:20 PM   #3578
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Originally Posted by triplejracer View Post
Frank. I bought my car maybe 3 weeks ago and the car was on the loose side so I decided to purchase the 4 gear tranny. Whe I took the 3gear tranny out the car I noticed it spin free. I took out the diff and idler gear and put case back together and still binding. Made sure the screws weren't hitting the slipper plate. When I took the slipper off the idle would spin super free. So I decided to say with the 3 gear and put it backer together and reset the slipper and everything smooth and free.
This weekend I ran the buggy and it was great. In my main I got hit by someone and everytime I let off the throttle it would spin out so I could not finish. I came back to the pit and was up in 10 minutes for my other main. I took the pinion off and again tranny bound up. I did the same thing real quick, took off the slipper car was free put it back on and pinion back on and was able to finish my main and the car was fast. Any help. Thanks
Did you put the little red spacer on the slipper shaft before installing the slipper plate?
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:21 PM   #3579
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Yes it is built per the manual. Never experienced this with anything else.
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Old 10-04-2016, 07:30 AM   #3580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Root View Post
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.
My laydown kit and dirt tranny are on the way.

Question - if for some reason the dirt tranny were to fail, can the laydown/carpet tranny be modified (dropped 3.5mm)? Is there enough material on the bottom of the laydown case to take off 3.5mm? Or is the case machined in a way this isn't even possible?
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Old 10-04-2016, 08:03 AM   #3581
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Originally Posted by skrichter View Post
My laydown kit and dirt tranny are on the way.

Question - if for some reason the dirt tranny were to fail, can the laydown/carpet tranny be modified (dropped 3.5mm)? Is there enough material on the bottom of the laydown case to take off 3.5mm? Or is the case machined in a way this isn't even possible?
if you were to break a trans case, i think you will be buying a new one.
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Old 10-04-2016, 08:28 AM   #3582
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Originally Posted by skrichter View Post
My laydown kit and dirt tranny are on the way.

Question - if for some reason the dirt tranny were to fail, can the laydown/carpet tranny be modified (dropped 3.5mm)? Is there enough material on the bottom of the laydown case to take off 3.5mm? Or is the case machined in a way this isn't even possible?
You will not be able to modify this.
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Old 10-04-2016, 08:53 AM   #3583
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It wouldn't work unless you grind down the motor plate, motor can, shock tower, and waterfall.
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Old 10-04-2016, 12:10 PM   #3584
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Trying to put a dirt laydown trans in the 3.0. Looks like I need longer screws to put the trans together with the motor plate. What length screws are needed??
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Old 10-04-2016, 01:21 PM   #3585
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Just finished building the 3.0 and the front castor blocks are binding. Browsed this thread and already made sure king pin screws were screwed in straight and are not too tight. Any suggestions for freeing it up? Thanks.
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