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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 04-09-2016, 11:41 AM   #2581
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The 22T 3.0 prototype has been seen smoking its competition so im sure the SCT is following closely behind
Where have you seen a 22T 3.0 prototype?
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Old 04-09-2016, 05:56 PM   #2582
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The 22T 3.0 prototype has been seen smoking its competition so im sure the SCT is following closely behind
proof? also smoking its competition isn't really a good measure. its mostly driver. old model 22's could still smoke the competition. its all getting what you have dialed and driving skills.
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Old 04-11-2016, 05:38 AM   #2583
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Where have you seen a 22T 3.0 prototype?
It made an apperance at my local track, then went to motorama
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Old 04-11-2016, 05:40 AM   #2584
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proof? also smoking its competition isn't really a good measure. its mostly driver. old model 22's could still smoke the competition. its all getting what you have dialed and driving skills.
You're correct but the battle i witnessed was team driver vs team driver so.......
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Old 04-11-2016, 06:34 AM   #2585
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With the launch of the laydown conversion for the 3.0, with geometry changes that make sense for carpet and astro tracks (lower center of gravity, higher roll center, better weight distribution...) I'm curious about the opinions on a rear sway bar. For me this is the only thing that I'm missing in the conversion, as other brands are using it already (KF2, TM2, XB2, Tebo at 2105 worlds...).

In our local club, having a very bumpy and high traction astro track, I've found that a homemade rear sway bar in the TLR 2.0 makes the rear more stable and allows to use a very soft suspension to swallow bumps but being stable enough in the fast turns to avoid traction rolling.

Also, in the 2.0 the rear arms have holes for the sway bar, but in the 3.0 they are gone. What do you think about? Frank to the rescue?

Thanks!
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Old 04-11-2016, 06:45 AM   #2586
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With the launch of the laydown conversion for the 3.0, with geometry changes that make sense for carpet and astro tracks (lower center of gravity, higher roll center, better weight distribution...) I'm curious about the opinions on a rear sway bar. For me this is the only thing that I'm missing in the conversion, as other brands are using it already (KF2, TM2, XB2, Tebo at 2105 worlds...).

In our local club, having a very bumpy and high traction astro track, I've found that a homemade rear sway bar in the TLR 2.0 makes the rear more stable and allows to use a very soft suspension to swallow bumps but being stable enough in the fast turns to avoid traction rolling.

Also, in the 2.0 the rear arms have holes for the sway bar, but in the 3.0 they are gone. What do you think about? Frank to the rescue?

Thanks!
To add to that, what about holes for the shocks to mount in front of the shock tower and in front of the rear arms?

i saw TLR's team driver in the UK with forward mounted rear shocks for the worlds on astro...
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:57 AM   #2587
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To add to that, what about holes for the shocks to mount in front of the shock tower and in front of the rear arms?

i saw TLR's team driver in the UK with forward mounted rear shocks for the worlds on astro...
Requires heavy custom modification. We couldn't include this in the conversion kit as an option.

It isn't night and day, I wouldn't say it's worthy of the effort.
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Old 04-11-2016, 12:24 PM   #2588
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are the lay down kit still on time lol
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Old 04-11-2016, 01:05 PM   #2589
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It made an apperance at my local track, then went to motorama
Would love for this to be true. Per frank this was a 2.0 for DE. Haven't seen anything around OCRC so far. https://mobile.twitter.com/FrankRoot...935360/photo/1
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Old 04-11-2016, 02:58 PM   #2590
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probably been answered in the labyrinth of rctech gear dif vs ball dif. Which dif for which use? I've heard rumors that the srx2 gear dif works excellent in the 22 series cars
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Old 04-11-2016, 03:07 PM   #2591
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probably been answered in the labyrinth of rctech gear dif vs ball dif. Which dif for which use? I've heard rumors that the srx2 gear dif works excellent in the 22 series cars
Yes, SRX-2 or SRX-4 diff for the 22 series. Hate to say it, but it crushes the Losi RTR diff in every way except price. But at just less than twice the price, it's still a much better value. You'll need to shim it to fit... I used a total of 0.7 mm of shims on each side.

I currently use the gear diff on carpet and ball everywhere else, but with as smooth as the Serpent diff is, I think it would be very usable on clay.
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Old 04-11-2016, 03:11 PM   #2592
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awesome thanks a ton just received a 22 3.0 off trade so I'm definitely looking forward to running my first TLR kit
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Old 04-12-2016, 06:29 AM   #2593
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Requires heavy custom modification. We couldn't include this in the conversion kit as an option.

It isn't night and day, I wouldn't say it's worthy of the effort.
what heavy modification does mounting the rear shocks in front of the tower require?

I thought you just get a 3mm bolt, add some aluminum washers to push the shock out so it runs vertical to the front of the rear arm, and then either drill a hole in the rear arm, or if they had existing holes that would be even easier.

am i missing something here?
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Old 04-12-2016, 07:33 AM   #2594
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Originally Posted by lyons238 View Post
what heavy modification does mounting the rear shocks in front of the tower require?

I thought you just get a 3mm bolt, add some aluminum washers to push the shock out so it runs vertical to the front of the rear arm, and then either drill a hole in the rear arm, or if they had existing holes that would be even easier.

am i missing something here?
You'd have to space the shock forward around 10mm... that's too much. You'll bend the screw(s), and certainly cause shock tower failures and excess flex during shock function to the point of detrimental performance.
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Old 04-12-2016, 07:52 AM   #2595
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You'd have to space the shock forward around 10mm... that's too much. You'll bend the screw(s), and certainly cause shock tower failures and excess flex during shock function to the point of detrimental performance.
TLR driver Ellis, did this in Europe not long ago...why would he do this at a big race if it were so bad? I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to learn. I know you know a lot more about engineering and geometry than I do, but I'm just wondering why a team driver would do this, and then you say this...

I would imagine a 30mm Ti screw with a few washer/plastic spacer would work fine, with minimal breakage?

Furthermore, I imagine I could actually use a piece of 4-5mm thick carbon fiber as part of the shock spacer and run it across each shock and act as a brace, this may help reduce the concerns you're talking about.

This doesn't seem that bad as far as spacing etc..

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