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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

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Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 03-29-2016, 10:47 PM   #2506
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So on the Dustin Evans setup I am running exactly the same thing with the LF grey rear spring. I need to make another 22 3.0 up and running but can't run grey because they will be on my other car.

Would you run a step stiffer then LF rear grey? Associated spring? Or I do have a Yatabe Yokomo Green spring. Is that what Dustin was actually running?
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Old 03-29-2016, 11:49 PM   #2507
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Dustin doesn't run the Yatabe springs, just the normal Yokomo Green rears. Yatabe springs are shorter. They are around 1.95ish in rating so something along those lines will be similar.
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Old 03-30-2016, 09:13 AM   #2508
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Originally Posted by randywhite30 View Post
Do you know if everything from the 2.0 will bolt onto the 3.0 chassis? I'm fairly certain the front bulkheads are the same, just not sure about the rear.
Almost everything in the rear is specific to 3.0. The only 2.0 parts that work on the rear of the 3.0 are: drive shaft / axel, hubs, bearings, hexes, diff, turnbuckles, shock mounts and shocks.

Search this thread for the conversion parts. Frank has a detailed list.
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Old 03-30-2016, 10:14 AM   #2509
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Originally Posted by Callaway View Post
Frank, thank you so much for taking the time to explain that! I will give it a shot. This seems like one of those things where the answer is counter-intuitive to someone (like me) still learning this stuff.

Would doing other things to combat roll be effective as well? As we have way too much traction, I don't need weight transfer to get bite on my outside corner. So perhaps lowering the inside of the front camber links?

I think I also need to smooth my driving style through the sharp corners. I seem to be doing more of a hard braking, turn, punch it out type of driving. It's the way I drive a rear motor on a really loose surface... which is exactly the opposite of my setup and surface now.
Yeah, you just can't drive like that on those tracks. Due to the grip, regardless of how the car is tuned, you can flip in any turn if you drive it "wrong".

Quote:
Originally Posted by randywhite30 View Post
Do you know if everything from the 2.0 will bolt onto the 3.0 chassis? I'm fairly certain the front bulkheads are the same, just not sure about the rear.
Very little will bolt on, almost nothing directly.

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Originally Posted by 3srcracing View Post
So on the Dustin Evans setup I am running exactly the same thing with the LF grey rear spring. I need to make another 22 3.0 up and running but can't run grey because they will be on my other car.

Would you run a step stiffer then LF rear grey? Associated spring? Or I do have a Yatabe Yokomo Green spring. Is that what Dustin was actually running?
He ran a Yokomo Green rear. I ran an AE green rear, which is just a touch stiffer. The LF grey is just between those.
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Old 03-30-2016, 10:33 AM   #2510
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Default Sideways battery

I'm mainly looking for a good way to turn the battery sideways, without having to replace all my Orion shorty packs I just bought. Exotek makes a chassis but I'm not really sure its work the $70 for the chassis since I'm sure it will change the dynamics of the car. I hate the idea of having to buy a new car just so i can turn my battery sideways.
I could mill out the side of the car but then I will have a hole where I milled out, pluss the Orion shorty packs are too tall, so I would have to find the right body thats tall enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWNwHPgcZMY

The link I posted is doable but not optimal.
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Old 03-30-2016, 10:49 AM   #2511
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I'm curious with the new direct drive system how much of a difference it would be weight wise vs. a slipper eliminator on a normal top shaft. I have an exotek eliminator currently on mine.
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Old 03-30-2016, 11:31 AM   #2512
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Originally Posted by Frank Root View Post
TLR 22 3.0
FRANK!

First off, I am extremely excited that you and the TLR guys created and are releasing the lay down tranny conversion kit, as I have an astro and a carpet track near my home town, along with two clay as well.

However, I have a couple concerns regarding the TLR lay down trans conversion kit.

1. How long does it take to switch from the lay down kit to the normal tranny? Is it even feasible to swap from week to week when going from astro to clay? Or was the kit more designed to put on the car for a dedicated lay down tranny?

2. How does the conversion perform on medium bite clay? Does this kit have the ability to handle well on all surfaces, or was it designed strictly for astro and would hinder performance compared to the stock setup on med-high bite clay? I noticed it comes with a brass weight...I assume this can be adjusted toward the rear of the car? Was this weight designed to make the car more balanced on astro, or was the weight designed to provide some balance/well roundness on a verity of surfaces including med-high bite clay?

3. Can you explain the handling characteristics of the kit, besides the obvious low and forward CG?
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Old 03-30-2016, 12:39 PM   #2513
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Originally Posted by randywhite30 View Post
I'm mainly looking for a good way to turn the battery sideways, without having to replace all my Orion shorty packs I just bought. Exotek makes a chassis but I'm not really sure its work the $70 for the chassis since I'm sure it will change the dynamics of the car. I hate the idea of having to buy a new car just so i can turn my battery sideways.
I could mill out the side of the car but then I will have a hole where I milled out, pluss the Orion shorty packs are too tall, so I would have to find the right body thats tall enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWNwHPgcZMY

The link I posted is doable but not optimal.
Are you taking about a 22 2.0? This is the 22 3.0 buggy thread, and the battery fits side-ways in it no problem at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX11 View Post
I'm curious with the new direct drive system how much of a difference it would be weight wise vs. a slipper eliminator on a normal top shaft. I have an exotek eliminator currently on mine.
It is the lighted slipper eliminator setup I weighed, at 10.3g.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyons238 View Post
FRANK!

First off, I am extremely excited that you and the TLR guys created and are releasing the lay down tranny conversion kit, as I have an astro and a carpet track near my home town, along with two clay as well.

However, I have a couple concerns regarding the TLR lay down trans conversion kit.

1. How long does it take to switch from the lay down kit to the normal tranny? Is it even feasible to swap from week to week when going from astro to clay? Or was the kit more designed to put on the car for a dedicated lay down tranny?

2. How does the conversion perform on medium bite clay? Does this kit have the ability to handle well on all surfaces, or was it designed strictly for astro and would hinder performance compared to the stock setup on med-high bite clay? I noticed it comes with a brass weight...I assume this can be adjusted toward the rear of the car? Was this weight designed to make the car more balanced on astro, or was the weight designed to provide some balance/well roundness on a verity of surfaces including med-high bite clay?

3. Can you explain the handling characteristics of the kit, besides the obvious low and forward CG?
It takes about 45min to an hour to switch once you've done it once.

We did most of the development on carpet and astro, but we have already successfully raced it on clay also. Mine works well at Coyote Hobbies, which is slicks. I think it is really good for slicks, and maybe high bite clay with spec racing.

Moving the motor forward changes the weight bias for higher grip tracks. The raised diff and raised axles on the rear hubs just help to correct the roll centers when running lower ride heights that you'll run on higher grip tracks.
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Old 03-30-2016, 12:43 PM   #2514
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Default TLR 22 2.0

I should of been a little more clear about what I have and what I'm looking for.

I have two 22 2.0 buggies, and I'm looking to turn the battery sideways in the 2.0.
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Old 03-30-2016, 12:44 PM   #2515
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Originally Posted by randywhite30 View Post
I should of been a little more clear about what I have and what I'm looking for.

I have two 22 2.0 buggies, and I'm looking to turn the battery sideways in the 2.0.
You can post that question here in the 22 2.0 thread - TLR 22 2.0 Race Kit: 1/10 2WD Buggy thread
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Old 03-30-2016, 12:48 PM   #2516
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Originally Posted by randywhite30 View Post
I have two 22 2.0 buggies, and I'm looking to turn the battery sideways in the 2.0.
Prior to the release of the 3.0, many drivers at my local track did the conversion with the stock or -2.5mm chassis. It involved dremeling away material from the side-guards, blunting the edges of the chassis where the battery rests on them, and fashioning a battery hold-down (saw a few different solutions). Some thin foam under the battery isn't a bad idea, either.

There were a bunch of photos of finished conversions in the 2.0 thread.
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Old 03-30-2016, 01:40 PM   #2517
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Originally Posted by Frank Root View Post
Are you taking about a 22 2.0? This is the 22 3.0 buggy thread, and the battery fits side-ways in it no problem at all.



It is the lighted slipper eliminator setup I weighed, at 10.3g.



It takes about 45min to an hour to switch once you've done it once.

We did most of the development on carpet and astro, but we have already successfully raced it on clay also. Mine works well at Coyote Hobbies, which is slicks. I think it is really good for slicks, and maybe high bite clay with spec racing.

Moving the motor forward changes the weight bias for higher grip tracks. The raised diff and raised axles on the rear hubs just help to correct the roll centers when running lower ride heights that you'll run on higher grip tracks.
Thanks Frank,

That's kind of what I figured. But...

1. In your honest opinion, do you think it's worth getting a second buggy to run the lay down or just swapping back and forth?

2. Which tranny layout for the 3.0 has the most potential to be better for any surface...the standard 3 gear or the lay down conversion? The standard low/rearward tranny layout seems optimized for dirt/rear traction, but has decent adaptability with the ability to move the battery. It seems the laydown has less adjustability in that department, unless that brass weight can be moved rearward, is that what thats for?

3. My home track is RC Excitement in MA, which is med-high clay. We run slicks when the track is well groomed, but sometimes it gets a tad dry on top and loose and electrons work better. Not sure if the laydown would work good on this track and I could run the lay down full time. So when I go to the carpet track I can perform well there as well.

Thanks for the response! Trying to get a good idea before committing to purchase.
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Last edited by lyons238; 03-30-2016 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:48 PM   #2518
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Thanks Frank,

That's kind of what I figured. But in your honest opinion, do you think it's worth getting a second buggy to run the lay down or just swapping back and forth?

My home track is RC Excitement in MA, which is med-high clay. We run slicks when the track is well groomed, but sometimes it gets a tad dry on top and loose and electrons work better. Not sure if the laydown would work good on this track and I could run the lay down full time. So when I go to the carpet track I can perform well their as well.

Also, any comment on the brass weight? Is it included to be used for the astro setup, or is it included as a tuning option to try and balance the lay down kit a bit for clay tracks as well.

Thanks for the response! Trying to get a good idea before committing to purchase.
I think that you'd be best off with 2 cars for those tracks. I think a 'standard' 3.0 would be best at RC Excitement for sure, and obviously the lay down on carpet.

For the brass weight, it just added some weight low to the center of the car to make it easier to drive when the grip is super high.
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:44 PM   #2519
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Originally Posted by lyons238 View Post
Thanks Frank,

That's kind of what I figured. But...

1. In your honest opinion, do you think it's worth getting a second buggy to run the lay down or just swapping back and forth?
You should also consider the changes you need to make to your suspension, e.g. shock springs/oil, camber links etc. That adds time too if time is something you are worried about.
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Old 03-30-2016, 05:01 PM   #2520
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I think that you'd be best off with 2 cars for those tracks. I think a 'standard' 3.0 would be best at RC Excitement for sure, and obviously the lay down on carpet.

For the brass weight, it just added some weight low to the center of the car to make it easier to drive when the grip is super high.
Any chance a carpet version will be offered in a complete kit form? I'll make do with the current 3.0 on carpet so I don't have much work to do when visiting clay tracks, but if a complete carpet kit were available for $330 or so, I'd buy it to have a dedicated carpet setup. It's a more difficult equation when a dedicated carpet rig would cost the normal $330 plus the carpet conversion. But maybe I need to decide how serious I am anyway... If I'm serious enough, cost won't matter
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