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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 03-17-2016, 03:55 PM   #2386
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Losi gear diff is fully rebuild-able. I am not sure what you mean by your comment?
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Old 03-17-2016, 05:41 PM   #2387
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I'll probably take some flack for this, but I don't think a gear diff is a must for carpet. I run on a tight (10-12 sec laps depending on layout),high bite ozite track every week from Sept. to March and my diffs hold up just fine. I've been running a 22T 2.0 all season and it's just now starting to feel a touch gritty. Only 3 races left so I'll just wait and rebuild it for next season. I make sure my slipper is actually slipping just a little bit. Just my .02, if it's even worth that lol.
When I got back into racing in 2005 it was to race off-road on carpet. All we raced was stadium trucks and the diffs were fine for the years I did that. I never even cracked open the diff case to service it until I started racing on dirt. I can maybe see gears for a Wheeler but a 2wd buggy should be able to work with balls in my opinion if the trucks could.
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Old 03-17-2016, 11:38 PM   #2388
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What are the latest shorty packs that people like for stock that fit nicely? I noticed some come in a bit tight, crushing the foam stickers on the sides of the chassis.
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Old 03-17-2016, 11:50 PM   #2389
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The foams on inner sides of chassis battery bay can be removed to fit the shorty better too if necessary, depending on the brand.
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Old 03-18-2016, 02:41 AM   #2390
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We run 10.5 blinky here on carpet and although you can get away with a ball diff, you have to be very astute on having your slipper set right and having your diff built perfectly and set very tight.
It's so much easier to run a gear diff and allows you to run it as tight or open as you please
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Old 03-18-2016, 07:28 AM   #2391
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What are the latest shorty packs that people like for stock that fit nicely? I noticed some come in a bit tight, crushing the foam stickers on the sides of the chassis.
The best IR numbers out there are coming from the new protek packs, the turnigy ultimates, and the trinity packs.
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Old 03-18-2016, 07:38 AM   #2392
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What are the latest shorty packs that people like for stock that fit nicely? I noticed some come in a bit tight, crushing the foam stickers on the sides of the chassis.
I don't run stock, so I can't speak to that. As far as the little foam spacers, however, I had to remove them to fit my SMC shorty packs. They fit perfectly snug without the foam.
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Old 03-18-2016, 09:31 AM   #2393
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Surprised to hear of all the ball diff issues, especially with such mild motors. This diff design has been run for YEARS on all levels of traction, in heavier cars with the fastest modified power.
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Old 03-18-2016, 10:31 AM   #2394
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how is everyone running their wiring? I ran mine all on one side for cleanliness. i was thinking about weighing the wires and finding a brass weight to somehow fit cleanly on the other side, not sure if its worth it though.
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Old 03-18-2016, 10:56 AM   #2395
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how is everyone running their wiring? I ran mine all on one side for cleanliness. i was thinking about weighing the wires and finding a brass weight to somehow fit cleanly on the other side, not sure if its worth it though.
Don't overthink it. I ran the wires to the motor down the left, then the battery on the right. Threw it on the 4-corner scale the other day and my right rear is 6g heavier than my left. My cross-weight is only 14g off, with FL-RR being heavier.
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Old 03-18-2016, 11:31 AM   #2396
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Don't overthink it. I ran the wires to the motor down the left, then the battery on the right. Threw it on the 4-corner scale the other day and my right rear is 6g heavier than my left. My cross-weight is only 14g off, with FL-RR being heavier.
+1

I ran my motor wires down the left. The Battery is only a short hop, ESC sits on the left in front of the battery. As for weight distribution my tires are the biggest differential. One set of tires old and well broke-in has FR 284, FL 273 (11gms diff), RR 468, RL 486 (12gms diff) overall 51% Right, 49% Left.

Another set of tires brand new: FR 275, FL 272 (3gms diff), RR 469, RL 468 (2gms diff), 50/50

Bottom line trying to haggle over a couple of grams would be crazy. Also considering you pick up mud during your run and all your work is wasted in the first flip.
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Old 03-18-2016, 11:41 AM   #2397
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Originally Posted by Callaway View Post
Don't overthink it. I ran the wires to the motor down the left, then the battery on the right. Threw it on the 4-corner scale the other day and my right rear is 6g heavier than my left. My cross-weight is only 14g off, with FL-RR being heavier.
i think all together all my wires have to weigh about 30g - including 7 total 13g wires, 1 sensor wire, and 2 bullets, wouldnt that make a pretty big diff...
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Old 03-18-2016, 12:57 PM   #2398
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i think all together all my wires have to weigh about 30g - including 7 total 13g wires, 1 sensor wire, and 2 bullets, wouldnt that make a pretty big diff...
Yes, maybe but what is the total weight distribution? You will need a 4 scale setup to see how your weight is spread. You have ESC, RX, Servo, Motor, gears, slipper, tires, etc. there are a lot of other variables that combine. My wires are on the left side of my car and it weighs less (29gms) than the right with one set of tires.

The other set of tires the difference is only 3 gms.
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Old 03-18-2016, 12:58 PM   #2399
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Yes, maybe but what is the total weight distribution? You will need a 4 scale setup to see how your weight is spread. You have ESC, RX, Servo, Motor, gears, slipper, tires, etc. there are a lot of other variables that combine. My wires are on the left side of my car and it weighs less (29gms) than the right with one set of tires.

The other set of tires the difference is only 3 gms.
How is there such a big difference because of the tires?
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Old 03-18-2016, 01:19 PM   #2400
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How is there such a big difference because of the tires?
I have weighed several of my tires/wheels combos and the inserts can vary as much as 5gms by manufacture, 10gms for truck tires. Also as a tire gets older, temp changes, water is absorbed via the vent holes, inserts break down, glue, etc. the tire/wheels change weight and never equal.

The tires with the biggest weight difference are about a year old and in perfect condition for my track. The ones closes in weight are brand new never run, but even then the combinations are still not even in weight, they vary 1-2gms each.

I have yet to weigh the tires, wheels, inserts separate. I didn't get my 4-scale until after all my tires were assembled. I will next time I put tires and wheels together and see if I can pin point where the biggest imperfections are.
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