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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

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Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 02-29-2016, 09:01 PM   #2221
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Does the kit come with servo spacers? I've got my kit on the way and also a Specktrm 6240 servo and need to know if I also need to order spacers for the servo. Thanks
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Old 02-29-2016, 10:40 PM   #2222
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Does the kit come with servo spacers? I've got my kit on the way and also a Specktrm 6240 servo and need to know if I also need to order spacers for the servo. Thanks
Yes, they are included in the kit. Run the 2 + 0.5 for the S6240.
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Old 03-01-2016, 06:24 AM   #2223
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Check this out guys

Last edited by Matt M.; 03-11-2017 at 04:28 AM.
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Old 03-01-2016, 07:49 AM   #2224
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Check this out guys
Looks like your spur is little chewed up?
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Old 03-01-2016, 08:40 AM   #2225
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Exactly...
Imo, dual rates work better, as you keep your entire trigger pull. EPA just limited the max top speed, but the last little bit of trigger pull will do nothing. D/R will also soften up the bottom end and make a hot motor easier to drive. That has been my experience with radio tuning.
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Old 03-01-2016, 09:45 AM   #2226
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Check this out guys
is that a yz2 transmission in that car? sure looks like one

im working on one you can drop in without any cutting but thats a pretty sweet job
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Old 03-01-2016, 09:46 AM   #2227
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Isn't dual rate the same as EPA, but just applied equally to both directions... usually applied to steering?

I've never seen a "dead band" using EPA. In other words, if I use 80% EPA, that 80% of throw is still only reached at max trigger pull/ wheel turn, no? Or maybe I just never noticed...
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Old 03-01-2016, 10:08 AM   #2228
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Isn't dual rate the same as EPA, but just applied equally to both directions... usually applied to steering?

I've never seen a "dead band" using EPA. In other words, if I use 80% EPA, that 80% of throw is still only reached at max trigger pull/ wheel turn, no? Or maybe I just never noticed...
I thought Dual Rate was applied to both directions as well. So in this case it wouldn't work well for numbing the throttle because it would also affect brake. I've never seen a dead band with EPA either. At 80%, it should mean that 100% pull the servo only moved 80% of it's normal distance. It shouldn't make the last 20% of your trigger pull a dead band/dead space.

I usually use EPA and/or exponential to limit the amount of throttle and braking individually.

For steering I use EPA to limit overall steering throw (so that I'm not trying to move the steering beyond it's physical limits), but typically de-tune with exponential if needed. I think in this case Dual Rate and exponential could work well to tune steering because if you use Dual Rate in this application it would affect both left and right throws equally (to limit the maximum amount of steering available on both L/R turns) so that you set this at one place, versus having to reduce the throw individually for L/R via EPA.
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Old 03-01-2016, 10:19 AM   #2229
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Imo, dual rates work better, as you keep your entire trigger pull. EPA just limited the max top speed, but the last little bit of trigger pull will do nothing. D/R will also soften up the bottom end and make a hot motor easier to drive. That has been my experience with radio tuning.
That is not correct...
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Old 03-01-2016, 11:40 AM   #2230
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Anyone know where there is cut gears in stock? Wanna set everything up at one time with the pucks and cut gears so i don't have to get back into it later.
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Old 03-01-2016, 12:37 PM   #2231
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That is not correct...
To expand on why it's not correct for those that are still confused:

Turning the EPA down basically just changes at what percentage of full throttle gets delivered to the ESC at literal full throttle. If your EPA is set to 90% and you pull the trigger all the way the transmitter registers the full trigger pull but only delivers a signal to the ESC to pull 90%. That last 10% is not wasted, it is just "hidden" and the remaining 90% is rolled into the rest of the trigger pull. Dual rate will do the same function but will function in BOTH directions, meaning your brake pull will be affected the same way, hence the dual rate..

This is exactly what's done on nitro cars when adjusting throttle linkage. EPA often has to be turned down so as not to over-pull the carburetor. You still get all the throttle pull you need and the "extra" is not dead in the trigger.

Last edited by 68pontiac; 03-01-2016 at 12:42 PM. Reason: added clarity
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Old 03-01-2016, 01:41 PM   #2232
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To expand on why it's not correct for those that are still confused:

Turning the EPA down basically just changes at what percentage of full throttle gets delivered to the ESC at literal full throttle. If your EPA is set to 90% and you pull the trigger all the way the transmitter registers the full trigger pull but only delivers a signal to the ESC to pull 90%. That last 10% is not wasted, it is just "hidden" and the remaining 90% is rolled into the rest of the trigger pull. Dual rate will do the same function but will function in BOTH directions, meaning your brake pull will be affected the same way, hence the dual rate..

This is exactly what's done on nitro cars when adjusting throttle linkage. EPA often has to be turned down so as not to over-pull the carburetor. You still get all the throttle pull you need and the "extra" is not dead in the trigger.
You are correct. He said the last part of the trigger wouldn't be used when turning down EPA/Travel, and that is NOT accurate.
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Old 03-01-2016, 02:59 PM   #2233
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Thanks man! I spent a ton of time building it to my perfection.



Exactly what I thought and my reasoning in getting a 7.5t. I also dial the expo settings so that I have a bit more throttle resolution, as to not gun it and zip into a bad situation, as I get used to a 7.5t motor in a buggy, this is something i learned when practicing with a buddies car.



Yeah, as I said I was mistaken. Appeciate the correction.

Eye candy: This is just my practice body, I will have a JC Finisher S2 painted by Jammin RC as he is local to me. Also still have to cut some wicker bill off.







Still missing the dust cover on the outer LF camber link.
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Old 03-01-2016, 04:44 PM   #2234
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is that a yz2 transmission in that car? sure looks like one

im working on one you can drop in without any cutting but thats a pretty sweet job
Yeah its a yz2 transmission. Some guy on the UK forum did this mod. Looks pretty good doesnt it? But thats it, he posted pictures with no other details
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Old 03-01-2016, 07:20 PM   #2235
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Yeah its a yz2 transmission. Some guy on the UK forum did this mod. Looks pretty good doesnt it? But thats it, he posted pictures with no other details
What is the benefit of using the YZ2 trans?
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