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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

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Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 01-31-2016, 11:50 PM   #1861
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Are they preassembled?
http://www.schelleracing.com/Schelle...R-Losi-SCH1086
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Old 02-01-2016, 01:12 AM   #1862
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Are there any after market thrust bearings that will fit the ball diff? I really dislike these seperate bearings, and was wondering if something like a premade bearing would fit? My guess is something like http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ent_2pcs_.html
I use the Acer ceramic thrust bearings. They are caged and smooth as silk.
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Old 02-01-2016, 05:36 AM   #1863
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Are there any after market thrust bearings that will fit the ball diff? I really dislike these seperate bearings, and was wondering if something like a premade bearing would fit? My guess is something like http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ent_2pcs_.html
B-fast is a good alternative:
http://www.bfastrc.com/tlr.html
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Old 02-01-2016, 11:00 AM   #1864
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What are others running for tires at your track? By the looks of the tire I'm assuming the track is rather loamy. If so I would consider looking at potentially Kevin Motter's setup from the Outdoor Reedy Race.

Secondly what are others running for tires at your track. That is a huge factor.
Oh I was trying to help the other guy. My car is awesome with those tires. And the track is hard dry slick dirt. Those c3 shotguns are about the only thing I can make hook up. Here is a video of the track, so you can see the conditions I run those on. This is my 4wd car. (yellow car) I was trying some treated m4 electrons. But it gives you an idea.

https://youtu.be/gWz-R9aJfP4
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Old 02-01-2016, 11:15 AM   #1865
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Got to run the car again yesterday, did mamage to qualify first in the B at our roar region indoor championships, got the win in the B and bumped to the A and ended up finishing 7th. Not a bad day, but I'm still struggling with the car. I still don't have the rear grip I'm looking for. And I'm running the same tires as the top guys. What I have changed from kit setup is 1.6 pistons all the way around, red front low frequency spring and 32.5 front oil and 30 rear. Oh and we run slicks. Now I also have a b5m lite. I threw it out in practice and it was money. I didn't have a transponder in my b5m so couldn't compare lap times but it felt like I could push the car harder and get on the throttle. As far as electronics I'm using a orion r10.1 and orion 8.5 geared with a 22 tooth pinion. Now I did have a 21 on it, so I geared it up to try to tame the bottom end a little. It helped a tad but still need more. I'm up for suggestions, I usually don't have setup issues, I can usually dial a car in
What is your full setup?
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Old 02-01-2016, 05:04 PM   #1866
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Default BEST BUILD EVER!

Rate 9.8 of 10 stars.

I have had the kit since it was pre-ordered, but moving had put everything on hold and in storage. But it also gave me time to purchase Lunsford titanium screws (which are awesome, each set of screws are individually bagged and labeled), Lunsford Titanium turnbuckles, and new electronics.

Finally finished the build and I must say this was the easiest build I have ever done since the Tamiya Grasshopper. I did not have any screw issues as previously stated. I did cheat a little and pre-tapped (as per Lunsford recommendations). Everything fit perfect, no cutting, sanding, trimming, nothing done to make parts fit or be free they all fit like they should have.

I was the most impressed with the tranny. It is the smoothest I have ever built! Right after putting it together the thing spins freely, even before installing the gear and slipper assembly. Never could get my 22 2.0 tranny close to this free and smooth even after a year of running.

If this car is as good as the 22T 2.0 on the track out of the box, I vote this kit the best kit to be released by anyone.

The only negative was the instructions were a little vague in a couple of spots. If I had not been experienced in TLR I may have had some issues.

Example:

1) Spindles were not marked L - R, or at least I could not find the markings.
2) Rear Toe inserts, picture didn't clearly show if arrows were in or out?
I just assumed the chart had the arrows pointed out so it must be out?

That's it! Just need to paint and get to the track.

Great job TLR and Frank and crew!
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Old 02-01-2016, 06:52 PM   #1867
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Originally Posted by Frank Root View Post
What is your full setup?
Everything is stock except the changes I mentioned. Camber - 1 all the way around, +.5 on front toe out. Ride height is 23 to 24mm front and rear. I appreciate any suggestions frank.
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Old 02-02-2016, 05:59 AM   #1868
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Ever since the 2.0, been having problems with the cvd pin at the axle/dogbone joint. Every set I've bought, I've degreased the threads, used locktite, and torqed down really tight. I get anywhere from 3-4 runs, to several weeks out of them, but always eventually fail. Pin slides out, ruins a rear hub, and have to buy another set of cvds and their very pricey. Anyone else in this same boat? Any other option parts that will last longer/better?
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Old 02-02-2016, 06:40 AM   #1869
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Hey Frank, question about gearing for stock 17.5 class racing. In the manual it gives the formula to figure out final drive ratio and lists 9.02:1 for a 7.5 motor with the 78/21 gearing and your suggested gearing for stock is 70/31 which comes out to 5.48:1 final ratio. Ive been running my car for a while now and love it but I just can't find that sweet spot for gearing and was wondering why the final drive ratio for stock is so much lower and if I could play with the gearing to get that up closer to 6 or 7:1. I started running the Schelle slipper eliminator so my gearing choices are either a 72 or 76 spur so what would be the sweet spot for this? Before that, with the 70/31, I had cars just walking away from me down the straight on out track but I could catch them in the tighter sections. I know I can bump my pinion gear up to get more top speed, and my motor temps are way low after a 10 min. main so I have room to play with, but just curious what is the ideal FDR for stock, if there is such a thing.
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Old 02-02-2016, 07:02 AM   #1870
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Originally Posted by mxnickj View Post
Hey Frank, question about gearing for stock 17.5 class racing. In the manual it gives the formula to figure out final drive ratio and lists 9.02:1 for a 7.5 motor with the 78/21 gearing and your suggested gearing for stock is 70/31 which comes out to 5.48:1 final ratio. Ive been running my car for a while now and love it but I just can't find that sweet spot for gearing and was wondering why the final drive ratio for stock is so much lower and if I could play with the gearing to get that up closer to 6 or 7:1. I started running the Schelle slipper eliminator so my gearing choices are either a 72 or 76 spur so what would be the sweet spot for this? Before that, with the 70/31, I had cars just walking away from me down the straight on out track but I could catch them in the tighter sections. I know I can bump my pinion gear up to get more top speed, and my motor temps are way low after a 10 min. main so I have room to play with, but just curious what is the ideal FDR for stock, if there is such a thing.
What 17.5 motor are you running and what is the temp after a 5 minute run? I f you are using the Schelle slipper eliminator, you should run their 69 tooth spur for 17.5.
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Old 02-02-2016, 07:58 AM   #1871
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Originally Posted by killshot01 View Post
Ever since the 2.0, been having problems with the cvd pin at the axle/dogbone joint. Every set I've bought, I've degreased the threads, used locktite, and torqed down really tight. I get anywhere from 3-4 runs, to several weeks out of them, but always eventually fail. Pin slides out, ruins a rear hub, and have to buy another set of cvds and their very pricey. Anyone else in this same boat? Any other option parts that will last longer/better?
An old school trick is to use a dremal and a vice to grind a flat spot in the middle of the pin. This way the set screw has a nice solid surface to press into. Just becareful not to to grind too deep, it should only take a few blips of the dremal to get what you need.
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Old 02-02-2016, 08:38 AM   #1872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudcat981 View Post
Rate 9.8 of 10 stars.

I have had the kit since it was pre-ordered, but moving had put everything on hold and in storage. But it also gave me time to purchase Lunsford titanium screws (which are awesome, each set of screws are individually bagged and labeled), Lunsford Titanium turnbuckles, and new electronics.

Finally finished the build and I must say this was the easiest build I have ever done since the Tamiya Grasshopper. I did not have any screw issues as previously stated. I did cheat a little and pre-tapped (as per Lunsford recommendations). Everything fit perfect, no cutting, sanding, trimming, nothing done to make parts fit or be free they all fit like they should have.

I was the most impressed with the tranny. It is the smoothest I have ever built! Right after putting it together the thing spins freely, even before installing the gear and slipper assembly. Never could get my 22 2.0 tranny close to this free and smooth even after a year of running.

If this car is as good as the 22T 2.0 on the track out of the box, I vote this kit the best kit to be released by anyone.

The only negative was the instructions were a little vague in a couple of spots. If I had not been experienced in TLR I may have had some issues.

Example:

1) Spindles were not marked L - R, or at least I could not find the markings.
2) Rear Toe inserts, picture didn't clearly show if arrows were in or out?
I just assumed the chart had the arrows pointed out so it must be out?

That's it! Just need to paint and get to the track.

Great job TLR and Frank and crew!
I like the rating

1. Spindle are marked, on the outside of the rib that runs along the spindle arm.
2. Out for sure, just like the chart in the manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony montana View Post
Everything is stock except the changes I mentioned. Camber - 1 all the way around, +.5 on front toe out. Ride height is 23 to 24mm front and rear. I appreciate any suggestions frank.
I'd really try the 2x1.6mm front piston, and 2x1.7mm rear piston setup. Probably start with Dustin's setup from Trackside. We've been running this pretty much all of the time now, it works great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killshot01 View Post
Ever since the 2.0, been having problems with the cvd pin at the axle/dogbone joint. Every set I've bought, I've degreased the threads, used locktite, and torqed down really tight. I get anywhere from 3-4 runs, to several weeks out of them, but always eventually fail. Pin slides out, ruins a rear hub, and have to buy another set of cvds and their very pricey. Anyone else in this same boat? Any other option parts that will last longer/better?
I've not had a pin come out in years with completely stock parts. I spray the set screw and barrel out with motor spray. Let the motor spray dry. Put loctite on the screw, run it all the way into the barrel (without the pin), then back it out and build the CVA. Not had any issues using this process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxnickj View Post
Hey Frank, question about gearing for stock 17.5 class racing. In the manual it gives the formula to figure out final drive ratio and lists 9.02:1 for a 7.5 motor with the 78/21 gearing and your suggested gearing for stock is 70/31 which comes out to 5.48:1 final ratio. Ive been running my car for a while now and love it but I just can't find that sweet spot for gearing and was wondering why the final drive ratio for stock is so much lower and if I could play with the gearing to get that up closer to 6 or 7:1. I started running the Schelle slipper eliminator so my gearing choices are either a 72 or 76 spur so what would be the sweet spot for this? Before that, with the 70/31, I had cars just walking away from me down the straight on out track but I could catch them in the tighter sections. I know I can bump my pinion gear up to get more top speed, and my motor temps are way low after a 10 min. main so I have room to play with, but just curious what is the ideal FDR for stock, if there is such a thing.
I don't really race SPEC, so I am probably not the best guy to ask. It really depends on the brand of motor, the motor timing, car weight, etc. You just kind of have to play with it until you feel you maximize the performance.
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Old 02-02-2016, 08:40 AM   #1873
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I'm running serpent diff and shimming the diff is needed
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:19 AM   #1874
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Originally Posted by Frank Root View Post
I like the rating

1. Spindle are marked, on the outside of the rib that runs along the spindle arm.
2. Out for sure, just like the chart in the manual.

I've not had a pin come out in years with completely stock parts. I spray the set screw and barrel out with motor spray. Let the motor spray dry. Put loctite on the screw, run it all the way into the barrel (without the pin), then back it out and build the CVA. Not had any issues using this process.
+1

I have "never" had a pin come out? I even use a dab of black grease. That includes 3 TLR's for the past year. I also had to replace the axle on one (bent it in a horrific crash with a SCT) and it is still locked in after 6 mos.
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:22 AM   #1875
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Originally Posted by killshot01 View Post
Ever since the 2.0, been having problems with the cvd pin at the axle/dogbone joint. Every set I've bought, I've degreased the threads, used locktite, and torqed down really tight. I get anywhere from 3-4 runs, to several weeks out of them, but always eventually fail. Pin slides out, ruins a rear hub, and have to buy another set of cvds and their very pricey. Anyone else in this same boat? Any other option parts that will last longer/better?
Just asking, but are you using the correct pins? The pins for the CVD is longer than the hub pin. If you are using the short pin I could see how this could eventually work itself free.
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