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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

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Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 01-27-2016, 09:21 PM   #1786
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Is anyone having this weird issue where the inside tire is lifting while taking really tight switchback or 180 degree turns? I cannot for the life of me tune this out.
I have noticed the same thing but this has not affected the turning capability as this buggy turns on a dime for me.
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Old 01-28-2016, 08:49 AM   #1787
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Default Rear Camber Block

FYI on those who may or may not know. TLR has bulked up this aluminum part (TLR234057), but is packaging it in the same package and the same part number. Broke the old one last night on a decent roll over, but when I went to the hobby store at the track, they sold me the same one. But then another racer said that they had bulked up the ends with more metal. I then went back to the store and we compared the parts and found the new one (and they gladly switched it out). Just wanted others to know that TLR has done this, but your hobby store maybe carrying both parts (but with the same stock number).

Have had the 3.0 buggy since it was released for over a month now and this is the first broken part. I even commented after looking at the crash broken part that where it broke, it should be "beefed up", I am glad they did it, because where it broke was exactly where they have added additional metal. Great Job TLR.

Frank, any chance if I send you the old part to the TLR office, would they replace it?
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Old 01-28-2016, 08:57 AM   #1788
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Originally Posted by jpcopeland1 View Post
Is anyone having this weird issue where the inside tire is lifting while taking really tight switchback or 180 degree turns? I cannot for the life of me tune this out.
Try more front droop, or stiffer front springs.

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Originally Posted by Oracer43 View Post
FYI on those who may or may not know. TLR has bulked up this aluminum part (TLR234057), but is packaging it in the same package and the same part number. Broke the old one last night on a decent roll over, but when I went to the hobby store at the track, they sold me the same one. But then another racer said that they had bulked up the ends with more metal. I then went back to the store and we compared the parts and found the new one (and they gladly switched it out). Just wanted others to know that TLR has done this, but your hobby store maybe carrying both parts (but with the same stock number).

Have had the 3.0 buggy since it was released for over a month now and this is the first broken part. I even commented after looking at the crash broken part that where it broke, it should be "beefed up", I am glad they did it, because where it broke was exactly where they have added additional metal. Great Job TLR.

Frank, any chance if I send you the old part to the TLR office, would they replace it?
We made a part better. Not because it was defective before, but because we saw an opportunity to improve it. If we replace every item we'd improved, then following that logic we'd have to give everyone who bought a 22 a 22 2.0, and the 2.0 a 3.0.

As you said, you raced a full month now and it didn't just fall off, it took a hard crash to break it.
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Old 01-28-2016, 09:01 AM   #1789
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Frank, any chance if I send you the old part to the TLR office, would they replace it?
That's a toughie because it's an expensive alloy part that most racers would expect to never fail. I would want assurance that I was buying the improved part too.
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Old 01-28-2016, 09:03 AM   #1790
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Try more front droop, or stiffer front springs.



We made a part better. Not because it was defective before, but because we saw an opportunity to improve it. If we replace every item we'd improved, then following that logic we'd have to give everyone who bought a 22 a 22 2.0, and the 2.0 a 3.0.

As you said, you raced a full month now and it didn't just fall off, it took a hard crash to break it.
I just noticed that I had put HB front springs on it that are super sift. Musta been one of those cocktail nights.... I went ahead and put on AE white fronts since it seems most are running those now in place of the Kyosho golds, or the stock Silvers. Wish I could get a hold of some Yokomo springs, but those have been backordered forever.
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Old 01-28-2016, 09:41 AM   #1791
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We made a part better. Not because it was defective before, but because we saw an opportunity to improve it. If we replace every item we'd improved, then following that logic we'd have to give everyone who bought a 22 a 22 2.0, and the 2.0 a 3.0.


Not sure I agree with your logic on something that is a month old. If it was years old (different version of the buggy) then I agree with this logic.

I understand your response and did purchase a new $22 aluminum item, but wanted others to know what happened because they may have two different actual parts in the same stock number. I would hate that someone go out and purchase a new 234057 and get the old part from their hobby store especially if they had both in stock. My $.02.

It is a great buggy.
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Old 01-28-2016, 09:50 AM   #1792
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That's a toughie because it's an expensive alloy part that most racers would expect to never fail. I would want assurance that I was buying the improved part too.
I have the expectation that everything can to fail over time. Over the years I think I have seen just about everything break battery hold down posts, Shock pistons, bell cranks, chassis, steering bearings, bell crank posts you name it. I even had to help someone find an idler shaft for there tranny. The bearing seized to the shaft and we could not get the bearing off. Now having an expectation that certain parts will last much longer then others sure. TLR has really raised the bar within the industry with the 22 series and the SCTE on supreme durability. There is always room to improve but on the inverse there is always a way to break a part and the hobbiest prove that over and over! Not saying it is TLR's or the drivers fault but lets be realistic we abuse our stuff!

As noted TLR saw an opportunity to make a part better. They are pretty good about this and if you do break an original the replacement will likely be stronger to reduce the chances of that happening again. Many have not had issues with the rear camber block but it is an expensive replacement part and it has been improved.
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Old 01-28-2016, 10:17 AM   #1793
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I have the expectation that everything can to fail over time...
Agreed, but the car has been out for about 2 months and this part has gotten a reputation for being a weak link, deserved or not.

All I'm saying is that if mine broke so quickly, I would want to replace the part with the improved one, not the weaker one, especially at this part's cost.
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Old 01-28-2016, 10:51 AM   #1794
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Agreed, but the car has been out for about 2 months and this part has gotten a reputation for being a weak link, deserved or not.

All I'm saying is that if mine broke so quickly, I would want to replace the part with the improved one, not the weaker one, especially at this part's cost.
Honestly, a lot of us are looking at this the wrong way. Be thankful TLR took the lead and made a running change to this part. If they hadn't you'd be spending money to replace the same part, pay a bunch extra for an aftermarket or "upgraded" part, or spending a ton of money to switch kits.

In a few weeks this gripe will be invalid. Complaining about something so trivial and short lived will only steer companies to resist making changes like this one. There is always going to be room for improvement; at least this opportunity was seized by TLR!
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:11 AM   #1795
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Don't wreck and you won't break parts. You can't make something completely indestructible. Sometimes you just have to revise things after it gets tested in the real world. That's a completely normal aspect of any design. They improved it. Be happy.
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:42 AM   #1796
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So whats the hot spring setup everyone is running now? I know people were running kyosho gold gold,
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:46 AM   #1797
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15 years ago we were happy to finish races when we crashed. Now we complain when ANYTHING breaks. Just evolution. Again a credit to the current durability of these cars.
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:48 AM   #1798
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So whats the hot spring setup everyone is running now? I know people were running kyosho gold gold,
I'm back to running Kyo Gold front and Kyo Pink rear as I was running on my 22 2.5
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Old 01-28-2016, 12:24 PM   #1799
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15 years ago we were happy to finish races when we crashed. Now we complain when ANYTHING breaks. Just evolution. Again a credit to the current durability of these cars.
+1.....back in the day a crash meant broken parts, cars being faster, lighter and being able to handle the stresses of brushless and LiPO.........CRAZY STRONG......I tip my hat to all the people involved in the progress in the industry. its amazing to see a 2WD buggy with a 7.5 cartwheel the length of a straight and still be in one piece.
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Old 01-28-2016, 03:24 PM   #1800
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FYI on those who may or may not know. TLR has bulked up this aluminum part (TLR234057), but is packaging it in the same package and the same part number. Broke the old one last night on a decent roll over, but when I went to the hobby store at the track, they sold me the same one. But then another racer said that they had bulked up the ends with more metal. I then went back to the store and we compared the parts and found the new one (and they gladly switched it out). Just wanted others to know that TLR has done this, but your hobby store maybe carrying both parts (but with the same stock number)....
Ahh yes, the elusive new part with the same part number. Oh well. I expressed my frustration about this before, but it doesn't matter...

This buggy is solid. Haven't broken anything. Quite a few of these at our track, and only seen an a-arm or two break. Open practice on race day, seen some brutal hits.

Definitely haven't seen TLR234057 break.
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