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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 01-14-2016, 11:58 AM   #1591
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This is my first attempt at "balancing" a car. I probably wouldn't have bothered, but my car is ~90g under weight and I just wanted to optimize the placement of that weight.

The attached images show how I have balanced the car. The scales show that the rear is ~10g unbalanced. To get it to balance out completely I had to add ~60g of weights next to the motor bell end. This also shows nicely perfect balance by suspending the car in air using two picks, one on the rear wing mount center screw (unique to the 3.0) and one on the center of the front bulk head, just above the bumper.

Not sure if anyone has been this particular about left to right balance, but I thought I would give it a try.
I'm going out on a limb here and say you have something very wrong happening here.

Can you post a pic with all 4 sides of the car on scales?

The pick method does not follow scientific method, so please move away from that.

Also, where is your battery strap, and where is your body? Both affect weight big time.
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Old 01-14-2016, 12:33 PM   #1592
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Originally Posted by DJPod View Post
This is my first attempt at "balancing" a car. I probably wouldn't have bothered, but my car is ~90g under weight and I just wanted to optimize the placement of that weight.

The attached images show how I have balanced the car. The scales show that the rear is ~10g unbalanced. To get it to balance out completely I had to add ~60g of weights next to the motor bell end. This also shows nicely perfect balance by suspending the car in air using two picks, one on the rear wing mount center screw (unique to the 3.0) and one on the center of the front bulk head, just above the bumper.

Not sure if anyone has been this particular about left to right balance, but I thought I would give it a try.
If you're going to worry about corner balancing your car, get some scales. And how did your car come in 90g underweight?
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Old 01-14-2016, 12:44 PM   #1593
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Default Left to Right Balance

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somthing is wrong there...
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Originally Posted by Frank Root View Post
+1
I'll be looking into it.

I never thought of it before but the mass of the motor plate, spur-pinion & cover introduce an off-center weight in any buggy.

Looking at PIHGUAM1's balance (post #1493, pg 100) the ESC and wires are on the left side which may help to balance out the car.

Has anyone check the cars balance without electrics in? I will try to see how my car balances like this.
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Old 01-14-2016, 01:01 PM   #1594
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I'm going out on a limb here and say you have something very wrong happening here.

Can you post a pic with all 4 sides of the car on scales?

The pick method does not follow scientific method, so please move away from that.

Also, where is your battery strap, and where is your body? Both affect weight big time.
Unfortunately, I only have two scales, so I guess I should get two more to do this correctly.

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Originally Posted by rcgod View Post
If you're going to worry about corner balancing your car, get some scales. And how did your car come in 90g underweight?
Rear = 807.3g
Front = 599.8g
Total = 1407.1g

Three changes from stock that would effect weight:
- MIP Pucks
- Titanium Turnbuckles
- Velcro instead of the battery strap (which now I find out removing the battery strap is not recommended)

Also I am using a x-light shorty (147g) (~50g less than standard shorties)
And the Tekin G2 Stock ESC and GEN3 motor is light as they get (22g + 158g)
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Last edited by Matt M.; 03-11-2017 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 01-14-2016, 01:22 PM   #1595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJPod View Post
This is my first attempt at "balancing" a car. I probably wouldn't have bothered, but my car is ~90g under weight and I just wanted to optimize the placement of that weight.

The attached images show how I have balanced the car. The scales show that the rear is ~10g unbalanced. To get it to balance out completely I had to add ~60g of weights next to the motor bell end. This also shows nicely perfect balance by suspending the car in air using two picks, one on the rear wing mount center screw (unique to the 3.0) and one on the center of the front bulk head, just above the bumper.

Not sure if anyone has been this particular about left to right balance, but I thought I would give it a try.
Route your motor wires down the left side of the car instead of over the top and this may get you there.
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Old 01-14-2016, 01:52 PM   #1596
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Originally Posted by DJPod View Post
Unfortunately, I only have two scales, so I guess I should get two more to do this correctly.



Rear = 807.3g
Front = 599.8g
Total = 1407.1g

Three changes from stock that would effect weight:
- MIP Pucks
- Titanium Turnbuckles
- Velcro instead of the battery strap (which now I find out removing the battery strap is not recommended)

Also I am using a x-light shorty (147g) (~50g less than standard shorties)
And the Tekin G2 Stock ESC and GEN3 motor is light as they get (22g + 158g)
When I run the Trinity lightweight shorty and my old JConcepts finisher body I'm right on the mark. This is with everything else being kit setup.

So, I'd recommend popping in a normal shorty or putting all the stock stuff back on. Also, have you calibrated your scales? Normally those little ones can be be off several grams and need to be calibrated.
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Old 01-14-2016, 02:22 PM   #1597
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i bought these tires and they came in today.
http://www.amainhobbies.com/rc-cars-...61574?v=274735

the foams inside seem to wide and it it pushing the tire walls out. am i supposed to cut the foam to get it to fit better? If not, how do i get it so they are completely round. They currently done lay flat so if i were to glue them, they would wobble

any help is appreciated
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Old 01-14-2016, 02:50 PM   #1598
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Are there rear sway bars for the car?
Not that I know of.
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Old 01-14-2016, 02:58 PM   #1599
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i bought these tires and they came in today.
http://www.amainhobbies.com/rc-cars-...61574?v=274735

the foams inside seem to wide and it it pushing the tire walls out. am i supposed to cut the foam to get it to fit better? If not, how do i get it so they are completely round. They currently done lay flat so if i were to glue them, they would wobble

any help is appreciated
When we ran open cell foams we would trim about 1/4 - 1/2 an inch of each outside corner. Before you get too deep into trimming foams I'd venture to say you're prolly going to need different foams. Unless you're racing outdoor or the track is really loose/low bite, you're going to want closed cell foams for those tires. Any will work, but I'd ask one of the fast guys at your track which foams they're running and would recommend you run in those tires.
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Old 01-14-2016, 03:01 PM   #1600
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Originally Posted by rekim View Post
i bought these tires and they came in today.
http://www.amainhobbies.com/rc-cars-...61574?v=274735

the foams inside seem to wide and it it pushing the tire walls out. am i supposed to cut the foam to get it to fit better? If not, how do i get it so they are completely round. They currently done lay flat so if i were to glue them, they would wobble

any help is appreciated
Most likely the inserts included are rear inserts. Trim 25% the width of the insert and use the larger portion in the tire.
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Old 01-14-2016, 03:01 PM   #1601
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Originally Posted by DJPod View Post
Unfortunately, I only have two scales, so I guess I should get two more to do this correctly.
Here's your problem. You must have all 4 corners on the same platform to correctly corner weight a car. What you're doing right now is very far off from any sort of accuracy.


Start reading:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ar...orner-weights/
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Old 01-14-2016, 03:03 PM   #1602
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Originally Posted by rekim View Post
i bought these tires and they came in today.
http://www.amainhobbies.com/rc-cars-...61574?v=274735

the foams inside seem to wide and it it pushing the tire walls out. am i supposed to cut the foam to get it to fit better? If not, how do i get it so they are completely round. They currently done lay flat so if i were to glue them, they would wobble

any help is appreciated
Use them as is or trim away a tiny bit of the corner of the foam on the inside edge (trimming the outside edge makes a rounder tire cross-section). Once on a rim everything should fit.
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Old 01-14-2016, 03:05 PM   #1603
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Originally Posted by rekim View Post
i bought these tires and they came in today.
http://www.amainhobbies.com/rc-cars-...61574?v=274735

the foams inside seem to wide and it it pushing the tire walls out. am i supposed to cut the foam to get it to fit better? If not, how do i get it so they are completely round. They currently done lay flat so if i were to glue them, they would wobble

any help is appreciated
The foams are that way for a reason. They're fine unless you want to run a closed cell foam, then purchase and run those instead.
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Old 01-14-2016, 06:00 PM   #1604
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Frank

I question the battery brace. In its stock form with my batteries it takes a fair amount of pressure to get it to the point where the clips can be installed. So much so that when you place steel ruler against the chassis you can noticeably see daylight under the back part of the chassis. This is the reason i placed 1mm spacers under the waterfall and went to a thumb screw type of hold down and this completely solved the chassis flex i was seeing. I understand what you are referring to but you definitely dont want to bow your chassis from the start. All lipos are a bit different so i can understand the need to make adjustments like i had to. Be nice to see an upgrade to an adjustable battery hold down in the future. I hate the battery taping setup.
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Old 01-14-2016, 06:45 PM   #1605
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I just watched Jason Snyders review of the 3.0 and he claims that the rear camber block is a bit weak....has anyone found the same issue?...and if so is there a replacement part. I haven't had the privilege to run mine yet as its a little snowy here in the great white north.
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