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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 01-11-2016, 06:32 PM   #1516
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does anyone know what part i would need to secure the wing using screws instead of body pins
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Old 01-11-2016, 06:35 PM   #1517
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New to the board here and would like to say that this thread is FULL of useful info!! Great job!! I was on a 15 year absence from the sport, my last vehicle was the XXX-T matt francis edition!! Dating myself there......

Then I saw the 3.0 and it was GAME ON!! Back in it, and boy have things changed!!!

So, that being said, I have purchased and built a 3.0 and have been very impressed!! I have noticed the "push" most are experiencing, yet have found that tire selection and prepping has helped my situation anyway.

Also, this VLA discussion, I guess I don't fully understand it, because as Casper was saying, it shouldn't alter the width of the car. Can anyone, or even Frank explain the theory and ideas behind it? Perhaps I didn't look hard enough, so forgive me if that seems like a silly question.

Thanks guys!!
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:28 PM   #1518
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i have little tiny plastic nubs on the rear wheel hubs. i find if i pull the shaft in too far it rubs against it and causes the shaft to not turn right. Is this little nub supposed to be there or should i clip it off? is it supposed to stop the shaft from going to far in?
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:34 PM   #1519
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Think of it like leverage. I didnt do the standard vla i did widen the front end. I was looking to change the way the front end "rolled" i felt the car was dumping to much on the front causing the car to kind-of hook in the corners. I am running on a high bite track medium to lower traction tracks im sure a simple outer vla setting would work just fine. Widening my car smoothed out the steering from enter to exit and it didn't loose any steering.
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:50 PM   #1520
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does anyone know what part i would need to secure the wing using screws instead of body pins
I shaved the mount on a belt sander,Dremel could do it. Drilled a #42 (or 3/32) hole not too deep and used exotek washer and 6mm countershunk screw.
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Old 01-11-2016, 08:28 PM   #1521
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i have little tiny plastic nubs on the rear wheel hubs. i find if i pull the shaft in too far it rubs against it and causes the shaft to not turn right. Is this little nub supposed to be there or should i clip it off? is it supposed to stop the shaft from going to far in?
No nubs on the rear hubs just inner bearing, spacer, outer bearing and smooth surface for the pins then hexs on the shaft. I'm not sure where this nub is but if it interferes with the wheel I would cut it off smooth.

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Old 01-11-2016, 08:43 PM   #1522
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does anyone know what part i would need to secure the wing using screws instead of body pins
I'm sure this is a preference but a friend of mine cut his off and uses screws. He said he doesn't like it now because it tears his wing up.
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Old 01-11-2016, 09:47 PM   #1523
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I'm sure this might have been covered but I've seen people ask about the gear diff scrubbing "it does scrub". I wanted to wait for the part to come in before I posted. If you place one 10x15x.05 shim on the screw side of the diff cup it will eliminate the scrubbing. I placed my shim on the outside of the bearing but I'm sure it doesn't matter which side of the bearing you put it. I picked up my shims at avid http://www.avidrc.com/product/5/acce...cessories.html
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:12 PM   #1524
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Originally Posted by LosiMadMan View Post
I'm sure this might have been covered but I've seen people ask about the gear diff scrubbing "it does scrub". I wanted to wait for the part to come in before I posted. If you place one 10x15x.05 shim on the screw side of the diff cup it will eliminate the scrubbing. I placed my shim on the outside of the bearing but I'm sure it doesn't matter which side of the bearing you put it. I picked up my shims at avid http://www.avidrc.com/product/5/acce...cessories.html
I'm running the Casper setup with the TLR gear diff and no issues at all. I triple checked the thing and its not rubbing one bit.
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:22 PM   #1525
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Here's the setup I came up with based off my B5M. Very easy to drive and doesn't get upset when driven hard. Worked on a wet tacky track and slightly loose/dusty surface.
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Old 01-12-2016, 12:59 AM   #1526
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Regarding the wing shim, do we run it UNDER the wing resting on the wing mount? Or do we run the shim on TOP of the wing, sandwiched between the wing and the body pins? I don't see how it could affect the wing's angle if it's run on top....
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Old 01-12-2016, 01:56 AM   #1527
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Regarding the wing shim, do we run it UNDER the wing resting on the wing mount? Or do we run the shim on TOP of the wing, sandwiched between the wing and the body pins? I don't see how it could affect the wing's angle if it's run on top....
The shim can be used on top I believe for 4 degrees wing angle. Then placed under the wing to achieve more or less angle.
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:52 AM   #1528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LosiMadMan View Post
I'm sure this might have been covered but I've seen people ask about the gear diff scrubbing "it does scrub". I wanted to wait for the part to come in before I posted. If you place one 10x15x.05 shim on the screw side of the diff cup it will eliminate the scrubbing. I placed my shim on the outside of the bearing but I'm sure it doesn't matter which side of the bearing you put it. I picked up my shims at avid http://www.avidrc.com/product/5/acce...cessories.html
As I mentioned before mine definitely scrubs in the housing. I added shims like these but once I had enough to eliminate the scrub the housing felt like it was too tight around the diff assembly once the bolts through the housing were tightened.

The only thing I can think of that might be the difference between some scrubbing and some not (besides some tolerances within the housing) is the thickness of the gasket underneath the diff gear cover. If it is too thick it might add enough to the overall width to cause the scrub. Maybe it swells over time from exposure to the oil? Just speculating.....
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Old 01-12-2016, 08:12 AM   #1529
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Originally Posted by Gromy82 View Post
New to the board here and would like to say that this thread is FULL of useful info!! Great job!! I was on a 15 year absence from the sport, my last vehicle was the XXX-T matt francis edition!! Dating myself there......

Then I saw the 3.0 and it was GAME ON!! Back in it, and boy have things changed!!!

So, that being said, I have purchased and built a 3.0 and have been very impressed!! I have noticed the "push" most are experiencing, yet have found that tire selection and prepping has helped my situation anyway.

Also, this VLA discussion, I guess I don't fully understand it, because as Casper was saying, it shouldn't alter the width of the car. Can anyone, or even Frank explain the theory and ideas behind it? Perhaps I didn't look hard enough, so forgive me if that seems like a silly question.

Thanks guys!!
Nick
To answer your VLA question. It will alter the width if you do it wrong. I thought the same thing. I can alter the width, watch this! It seems to be a common misconception that the block moves out to the 2nd set of holes. But it actually stays in the same place, you just move the pin from the inner holes to the outer holes, and that changes the pivot point on the outer arm. As far as how it affects the car. There are probably others here that are better at explaining it than me.
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:38 AM   #1530
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Originally Posted by greener74 View Post
To answer your VLA question. It will alter the width if you do it wrong. I thought the same thing. I can alter the width, watch this! It seems to be a common misconception that the block moves out to the 2nd set of holes. But it actually stays in the same place, you just move the pin from the inner holes to the outer holes, and that changes the pivot point on the outer arm. As far as how it affects the car. There are probably others here that are better at explaining it than me.
Here is an explanation from the LOSI XXX-B2K manual on VLA.

ARM LENGTH ADJUSTMENT (VLA), the XXX-BK2 is like having four cars in one. With the addition of a longer arm position, you can have an aggressive setup by using the standard mounting positions or a more conservative setup by using the longer position. For most tracks the standard setup will work well, but for extremely bumpy, rutted, and high bite tracks the longer arm length will help slow the reactions of the car, making it feel less twitchy.

The longer arm setting will help to increase steering during the middle, exit, and during on power turns. It can also be used as a valuable tuning aid to balance your car is you are experiencing too much chassis roll in the front of the car. For instance, European tracks often have long sweeping turns, which require a very stable car, the longer the arm position should prove to work very well.
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