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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 01-05-2016, 09:03 AM   #1411
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How do you calculate the amount of spring rate change required for a change in front kick up?
I don't. I do it empirically. I set my springs by taking the oil out of the shocks, pressing the chassis down, and watching the front and rear bounce back up when I release the chassis. If one end bounces up faster than the other it means that end is stiffer. Every car I've built comes with the front stiffer than the rear out of the box. A car that is stiffer up front tends to understeer, which is easier to drive than a car that oversteers. Anyway, if I have springs, I try swapping springs until I get the front and rear to bounce up at the same rate. If not, I adjust shock mounting locations until I get the front and rear balanced. In physics I learned about how force vectors work, so I knew changing the angle of the shocks would change the effective stiffness. With that in mind, I did this procedure after changing the front kick.

Chris, thanks for the tip! I don't know why I didn't think of that while building it.
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Old 01-05-2016, 10:02 AM   #1412
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For those interested, I have another follow up post to my initial build post and my first track test post.

On Sunday I had my first race day with the car. Overall I would consider it a very successful day. For myself, I define success as making the A Main and not finishing dead last. Mod buggy is very competitive where I race, and even though this past Sunday was a light turnout, we still had enough to go to a C Main. My first qual was good enough to put me in the A-Main, which I needed because my second qual was somewhat of a disaster. Remember the drive pin I had fall out in my initial track test post? Well, the other drive pin decided to work its way out during the 2nd qual (despite building it with thread lock on the set screw). Again, this isn't something I had to worry about for the last three years I had a Durango so I find it pretty frustrating. I'll just keep an eye on them until I get my shrink tube in the mail to put over the CVD joint to keep it from happening again. Anyway, with that issue temporarily sorted out, I started 7th in the A and finnished 6th. I consider that a very good result for myself.
The archaic cvd design was probably for cost cutting measures, but not what I expected on a car that is heavily redesigned. There is a reason why the majority of CVDs are captured now. Could have easily changed the drive axle design to accept a spring retainer for the pin imo. But who knows, maybe it will appear as an upgrade option

Edit: I take that back. There is no space on the rear hub to add anything to the CVD, even shrink wrap. I guess that's our answer.
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Old 01-05-2016, 10:14 AM   #1413
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Anyone know if the Exotek wing mount fits, there site just says 22?
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Old 01-05-2016, 10:17 AM   #1414
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Anyone know if the Exotek wing mount fits, there site just says 22?
No. The rear tower has been completely redesigned.
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:10 AM   #1415
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The archaic cvd design was probably for cost cutting measures, but not what I expected on a car that is heavily redesigned. There is a reason why the majority of CVDs are captured now. Could have easily changed the drive axle design to accept a spring retainer for the pin imo. But who knows, maybe it will appear as an upgrade option

Edit: I take that back. There is no space on the rear hub to add anything to the CVD, even shrink wrap. I guess that's our answer.
MIP CVDs are captured. Either on the regular bone / axel or their pucks systems (2.0 is the same). If you are concerned that could be an option for you.

I run TLR CVDs in about half of my fleet and have never had a pin come out. Not to insult anyone's skill or tools, but using a high quality driver can be the difference. I use the MIP drivers and feel I can get a good amount of torque on the set screw without stripping.
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:03 PM   #1416
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...adjust shock mounting locations until I get the front and rear balanced...
Aren't you, in effect changing the motion ratio if you change the shock mounting location?
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:25 PM   #1417
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In every kit I have tapped the holes, I have never had a screw come loose. I started doing this years ago when Losi kits were graphite, you had to tap the holes. I do it because the cars go together so much easier and it's easier on the screw hexes. I used a 3mm plug tap on this car and went all the way through. If i were to do it again, I would probably not tap the caster blocks where the shouldered screws go in.
Thanks for the extra info, I will try it out on our next build!
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:33 PM   #1418
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MIP CVDs are captured. Either on the regular bone / axel or their pucks systems (2.0 is the same). If you are concerned that could be an option for you.

I run TLR CVDs in about half of my fleet and have never had a pin come out. Not to insult anyone's skill or tools, but using a high quality driver can be the difference. I use the MIP drivers and feel I can get a good amount of torque on the set screw without stripping.
I make sure to de-grease the threads and use a good tool to tighten down that pin too. The good thing about the captured style is that it gives the CVD another axis to rotate upon, but I can't really tell a diff
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:54 PM   #1419
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Aren't you, in effect changing the motion ratio if you change the shock mounting location?
Yup. But I don't think it's enough to make a difference.

I should probably state the motion ratios I measured and calculated were after I changed my shock mounting positions. I really don't think they'll change drastically, and I'll probably never re-calculate them even if I move my mounting locations.
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Old 01-05-2016, 06:52 PM   #1420
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Tired of using the pins for battery strap and would like to go to a thumb screw type. Will the tlr thrumb screw kit work with stock battery brace running sideways battery? Any other options?
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Old 01-05-2016, 09:01 PM   #1421
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Just wondering if anyone has been testing gear diffs on indoor clay tracks and if so how have the outcomes been
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Old 01-05-2016, 09:18 PM   #1422
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Tired of using the pins for battery strap and would like to go to a thumb screw type. Will the tlr thrumb screw kit work with stock battery brace running sideways battery? Any other options?
Yes it will fit but you will need a few extra spacers. I used the aluminum rear axle spacer (installed first in chassis) followed by aluminum 2mm washer and then the TLR aluminum post from their thumb screw option kit for the 2.0
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Old 01-06-2016, 06:01 AM   #1423
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Originally Posted by o.s. power View Post
In every kit I have tapped the holes, I have never had a screw come loose. I started doing this years ago when Losi kits were graphite, you had to tap the holes. I do it because the cars go together so much easier and it's easier on the screw hexes. I used a 3mm plug tap on this car and went all the way through. If i were to do it again, I would probably not tap the caster blocks where the shouldered screws go in.

I feel like tapping plastic makes the screws thread too easily. They seem to lose a lot of holding power. The old old Losi kits use to give you a 4-40 screw that had tapered threads for starting threads but the threads never got as deep as a real tap. That worked really good. I wish I had a metric version of that.
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Old 01-06-2016, 07:19 AM   #1424
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Just wondering if anyone has been testing gear diffs on indoor clay tracks and if so how have the outcomes been
I have been running a gear diff. I am currently at 2 gear and 20K (take out one set of the spider gears to increase oil volume).

Seems to work pretty well. Need to do some back to back testing but this seems to work pretty well for me so far.
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Old 01-06-2016, 07:25 AM   #1425
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I have been running a gear diff. I am currently at 2 gear and 20K (take out one set of the spider gears to increase oil volume).

Seems to work pretty well. Need to do some back to back testing but this seems to work pretty well for me so far.
Ok thanks for that info Casper. Just so I'm clear, you took out 2 of the 4 smaller gears inside the diff?
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