R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: Matt Trimmings
Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

Print Wikipost

Like Tree12Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-30-2015, 12:27 AM   #1291
Tech Adept
 
rc-racer75's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Round Mountain, NV
Posts: 243
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt409 View Post
I'm trying to gear my car for a 17.5 on a high speed track any suggestions on gearing and also I can't find any where that sells different sized spur gears for this car what are you guys using I tried to fit a b5 69t but it wouldn't fit. Thanks in advance.
I am using my 70t spur and pads from my 2.0 buggy with a 31t pinion. Just got it built have not had a chance to run it.
__________________
FL 22SCT RS GEn2/w Gen2 17.5, FL 22SCT RS TP 10.5
22-4 Sanwa Vortex, gen2 6.5, HB D413 r10pro orion 6.5t
22 3.0 Tekin RSgen2 TP 9.5, 22 3.0 RS Spec D4 17.5
M12 controls them TrackTime Reno or 702Rcraceway!!
rc-racer75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 01:57 AM   #1292
BKH
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt409 View Post
I'm trying to gear my car for a 17.5 on a high speed track any suggestions on gearing and also I can't find any where that sells different sized spur gears for this car what are you guys using I tried to fit a b5 69t but it wouldn't fit. Thanks in advance.
I use the avid slipper setup in mine, it gives you a lot more spur gear options I run 69/30.
BKH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 05:18 AM   #1293
Tech Master
 
RC10Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,297
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bolt speedman View Post
So I have had the car for a few week now and I have one problem with it.I can seem to get the on power push out of it.its not to bad indoors but for some reason outdoors it pretty bad.I have tried different setups on still the same end result, pushes.yes I have changed slingshot oils, shim placements, moving battery.could it be the fact im running the thin shorty packs. Or should I just get that brass weight for the front.
Try a stiffer rear spring or a softer front spring.
__________________
JT RC Products
https://www.facebook.com/JTRCProducts/
RC10Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 06:35 AM   #1294
Tech Master
 
RC10Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,297
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Here's my follow up to my initial build post. I had the chance to get the car dirty last night and as I predicted at the end of my first post, I was very happy with the car. There are some details worth going into, however.

As many people have pointed out, the out of the box setup on this car is pretty good. It lands and jumps well and is very easy to drive. However, I feel TLR sacrificed steering to get that easy to drive feel. The car felt sluggish to turn in and in general didn't respond very quickly to steering inputs. However, when I did manage to get the back end out of shape, the car was very easy to correct and get going straight again, which goes back to being very easy to drive.

I'd like to talk a little bit more about the landing/jumping aspect. I was pretty surprised to see the kit setup go with 1.5 holes pistons up front and 1.6 hole pistons in the rear. Traditionally racers like to run bigger holes up front and smaller holes in the rear, so why is it that TLR appears to be doing the opposite, and why does it work so well? To understand that, we need to talk physics and engineering. Don't worry, I won't get too deep into it. Our shocks are simple viscous dampers. We know thicker oil and smaller/less holes will increase our shock's dampening. We're also vaguely aware of the third variable that affects dampening. We call it "pack", but it's really the third variable that affects damping, piston speed. When the piston travels faster through the shock fluid, damping increases. Now think about the way our car's suspensions are designed. We have longer shocks in the rear and shorter shocks in the front. This leads to the rear shock pistons traveling faster than the front shock pistons for the same wheel deflection (google "motion ratio" for more on this). Now that we know this about our shocks, it makes sense why TLR would put a smaller piston up front and a bigger piston in the rear. The rear shocks already have an inherent increase in "pack" compared to the front pistons by virtue of the piston speed. By putting a larger piston hole in the rear, you can balance the amount of pack front to rear. This gives you a suspension package where the front and rear shocks respond similarly to bumps and jumps. It is a large part of the reason why everyone says the 22 3.0 jumps so well.

To learn more about achieving balance in your car's setup, I strongly urge you to read through this thread. All the posts by FredSwain are filled with tuning gold. He outlines a process by which you end up with a car that has a balanced suspension. If you don't feel like combing through that miles long thread, I have gone through and copied all the relevant posts to a google docs sheet here. Many of you may brush off what he has to say about tuning because it is so far outside of what is "common knowledge" in the RC community. However, if you built the car with the kit setup, you are already outside of what is "common knowledge" for shock setups and you know it works. Why not go a little further? Every car I've applied Fred's methods to have seen a drastic improvement in driving performance. As good as I think the out of the box setup is on the 22 3.0, I plan on doing the full balance method to it because I know it will make it better.

Anyway, off of my tuning soapbox and back to the car. One thing I didn't mention in my previous post that I had thought about was the lack of captured CVD pins. On my dex210, the CVD pins were entirely captured within the inner hub carrier bearing. This completely eliminates any chance of the pin ever falling out while driving. During the build, I noticed the 22 3.0 doesn't have captured pins on the CVD, and I remember thinking to myself "I hope the pin never falls out." Well, at the end of my second run on the track last night, one of my pins had come out (and yes, I did use thread lock on the set screw that holds the pin in place, it still came out anyway. I'll be ordering some shrink wrap to put around the CVD axle to prevent it from happening again). Thankfully I had another pin I could throw right in and be on my way, but it's just one more of those neat little design features that would have been nice to have.

I tweaked the setup throughout the night to try to eliminate some of the push the car had. I made two changes to the stock setup that I think really helped. The first thing I did was move the rear hubs to their full forward position. The second change I made was to switch to the long arm setup on the front. However, I didn't change the shock mounting locations or the camber links as shown in the manual. I simply moved the shoulder screws to the outer hole on the arm. This is what really helped tame the car's push. I would recommend this to anyone looking to get more steering out of the kit setup.

TL;DR - The car drove great. There's an unconventional shock setup that make the car jump great. There's design features lacking on this car that I miss from my dex210, but the driving experience more than makes up for it (I'd still like to see those design features and some point, though). In short, I'm very happy with my decision to switch to TLR from Durango.

p.s. For anyone who was worried, my car's wiring held up just fine and didn't cause any problems at all.

*edit*
Holy cow, my first post I linked to is post 1243 in this thread, and this post is my 1243 post. Pretty neat coincidence!

**2nd edit**
I also wanted to add how pleased I am with the wing. The thicker lexan is really tough and stood up great to all the abuse I subjected it to last night. Other wings I've used were very quick to dent/bend/break, but the TLR wing holds up great.
__________________
JT RC Products
https://www.facebook.com/JTRCProducts/

Last edited by RC10Nick; 12-30-2015 at 08:00 AM. Reason: pistol hole size correction courtesy of slakr
RC10Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 06:52 AM   #1295
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Valley Cottage NY
Posts: 1,798
Trader Rating: 48 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bolt speedman View Post
So I have had the car for a few week now and I have one problem with it.I can seem to get the on power push out of it.its not to bad indoors but for some reason outdoors it pretty bad.I have tried different setups on still the same end result, pushes.yes I have changed slingshot oils, shim placements, moving battery.could it be the fact im running the thin shorty packs. Or should I just get that brass weight for the front.
i would go softer front spring, brass front kick up piece or shorten rear link. I'm using 1 A right now and its working
__________________
Thanks to my sponsors:
My Credit Card
Speedychris22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 07:13 AM   #1296
Tech Champion
 
Davidka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,846
Trader Rating: 75 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bolt speedman View Post
So I have had the car for a few week now and I have one problem with it.I can seem to get the on power push out of it.its not to bad indoors but for some reason outdoors it pretty bad..
Two things to try:
1. Different front tires. Your surfaces are different. If your car is working one and not on another, start with tires.
2. Less rear toe in?
__________________
"I have no idea what you're talking about, so here's a bunny with a pancake on it's head."

In mind and body, we're all heading towards old age. It is slower to go by bike.
Davidka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 07:44 AM   #1297
Tech Master
 
slakr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 1,675
Trader Rating: 28 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RC10Nick View Post
I was pretty surprised to see the kit setup go with 1.6 holes pistons up front and 1.7 hole pistons in the rear.
Great input... one correction though: kit is 1.5F/1.6R
__________________
TLR 22 4.0, 22-4 2.0, 8IGHT & 8IGHT-E 4.0~XRAY XB2C~AE TC7.1
Tim aka "slakr" ROAR No. 3-119960
slakr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 08:25 AM   #1298
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Oak Hills, SoCal
Posts: 111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt409 View Post
I'm trying to gear my car for a 17.5 on a high speed track any suggestions on gearing and also I can't find any where that sells different sized spur gears for this car what are you guys using I tried to fit a b5 69t but it wouldn't fit. Thanks in advance.
I run indoor clay and I'm using the Exotek direct spur mount using 69/31 gearing which has been solid and fast for me.
__________________
If your not first your last! Shake N bake!
FPMX772 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 08:48 AM   #1299
Tech Fanatic
 
Mudcat981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Lemoore, Ca
Posts: 793
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RC10Nick View Post
I was pretty surprised to see the kit setup go with 1.5 holes pistons up front and 1.6 hole pistons in the rear. Traditionally racers like to run bigger holes up front and smaller holes in the rear, so why is it that TLR appears to be doing the opposite, and why does it work so well?
Not sure what racers your talking to but TLR has almost always gone with smaller or equal pistons in the front? So I am surprised you are surprised?
Is this your first LOSI?
__________________
Gene Hobbs - "Misplaced Texan"
TLR 22 3.0SR, TLR 22T 3.0, TLR 22 3.0 (Standard & Laydown)
TLR 22 2.0, TLR 22T 2.0, TLR 22-4 1.5
AIRTRONICS, HOBBYWING, ORION, SAVOX, TRINITY
LUNSFORD, JCONCEPTS, SCHELLE
Mudcat981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 10:24 AM   #1300
Super Moderator
 
Kraig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sun Prairie, WI
Posts: 6,391
Trader Rating: 71 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RC10Nick View Post
Anyway, off of my tuning soapbox and back to the car. One thing I didn't mention in my previous post that I had thought about was the lack of captured CVD pins. On my dex210, the CVD pins were entirely captured within the inner hub carrier bearing. This completely eliminates any chance of the pin ever falling out while driving. During the build, I noticed the 22 3.0 doesn't have captured pins on the CVD, and I remember thinking to myself "I hope the pin never falls out." Well, at the end of my second run on the track last night, one of my pins had come out (and yes, I did use thread lock on the set screw that holds the pin in place, it still came out anyway. I'll be ordering some shrink wrap to put around the CVD axle to prevent it from happening again). Thankfully I had another pin I could throw right in and be on my way, but it's just one more of those neat little design features that would have been nice to have.
I had a problem with the included thread lock included in a kit and I never trusted it again. I always went to the name brand version.

Thanks for the link to the google doc. I am sure a lot of people appreciate it but just won't admit it.
__________________
There is great need for a sarcasm font.

You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest of the day.

Sometimes I post just to look at my avatar.
Kraig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 12:36 PM   #1301
Tech Master
 
mxnickj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lewisburg PA
Posts: 1,811
Trader Rating: 51 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraig View Post
I had a problem with the included thread lock included in a kit and I never trusted it again. I always went to the name brand version.

Thanks for the link to the google doc. I am sure a lot of people appreciate it but just won't admit it.
I got one of these Loctite sticks a year or so ago and have never looked back. Best $10 I ever spent for RC stuff, or for anything really. Some auto parts stores have them also if you need one quick.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...HA3AGQ70TK4H7X
mxnickj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 01:24 PM   #1302
Tech Adept
 
Guch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 229
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

I use a Permatex thread locking Gel medium(blue) strength P/N 24010. The gel is great because it does not run and you just twist the bottom to dispense more. No more thread lock leaking in my tool box. As for the cvd pins, I have aluminum rear hubs which have more clearance around the cup of the axle. This allows me to use a black shrink tube over the cup to hold the pin. I put a small hole in the shrink tube for the drive axle to exit and articulate. The shrink tube sorta makes a boot over the cvd keeping dirt out. Again, you have to have aluminum rear hubs.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/members/...9-10-39-38.jpg
__________________
22 3.0,Orion R10/DPS 7.5,Orion 4600 shorty, Airtronics M12,Spektrum S6270
SCT410.3,RX8.2/Pro4 4600,XP DS1015,SMC 7200
If guns are ever outlawed, then I'll be an outlaw!

Last edited by Guch; 12-30-2015 at 01:42 PM.
Guch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 04:11 PM   #1303
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 501
Trader Rating: 8 (90%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guch View Post
I use a Permatex thread locking Gel medium(blue) strength P/N 24010. The gel is great because it does not run and you just twist the bottom to dispense more. No more thread lock leaking in my tool box. As for the cvd pins, I have aluminum rear hubs which have more clearance around the cup of the axle. This allows me to use a black shrink tube over the cup to hold the pin. I put a small hole in the shrink tube for the drive axle to exit and articulate. The shrink tube sorta makes a boot over the cvd keeping dirt out. Again, you have to have aluminum rear hubs.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/members/...9-10-39-38.jpg
Nice tip!! Thanks!!
juicy74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 04:29 PM   #1304
Tech Adept
 
Gonz13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 126
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraig View Post
I had a problem with the included thread lock included in a kit and I never trusted it again. I always went to the name brand version.

Thanks for the link to the google doc. I am sure a lot of people appreciate it but just won't admit it.
Isn't the thread lock exactly the same across brands, just re-packaged?
Gonz13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 07:12 PM   #1305
Super Moderator
 
Kraig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sun Prairie, WI
Posts: 6,391
Trader Rating: 71 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonz13 View Post
Isn't the thread lock exactly the same across brands, just re-packaged?
It could be but I can't be 100% sure. So I just use some that I picked up at my local hardware store.
__________________
There is great need for a sarcasm font.

You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest of the day.

Sometimes I post just to look at my avatar.
Kraig is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 09:18 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net