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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

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Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 12-26-2015, 01:38 PM   #1186
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What is the downside of adding the spacer to the rear axle? I know it creates more forward bite because the dog bone plunged further in, which also helps keep it from falling out. But at the expense of what?
When you run the spacer it takes traction away and keeps the car flatter
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Old 12-26-2015, 02:56 PM   #1187
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When you run the spacer it takes traction away and keeps the car flatter
I thought I read it increased traction.
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Old 12-26-2015, 05:25 PM   #1188
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What is the downside of adding the spacer to the rear axle? I know it creates more forward bite because the dog bone plunged further in, which also helps keep it from falling out. But at the expense of what?
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If i understand it right... Add the spacer on high bite and take out on low bite tracks. Some guys on adding spacer because their dog bones are barely staying in the Outdrives, mine were the same until i tighten down the transmission to the chassis. Now my dog bone sticks in the Outdrives further.
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Old 12-26-2015, 06:41 PM   #1189
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Originally Posted by F N CUDA View Post
Wow Casper, that's what I have in my 3.0 now but with 4 gears. 20 k felt like a snug gear diff and is working well.
I had to use the axle spacers though, I was hearing random gnarly sounds and saw that the bones were almost coming out at 29mm stroke shock setting.
I tried putting a gear diff in my car and I noticed some significant interference with the inside of the transmission case. I was able to get rid of almost all of it by adding some shims on the outdrives. However, after putting the case back together with the screws holding it snugly I felt the shims were making the fit too tight and the diff gear's rotation was getting impeded.

It sounds like you figured out the source of your noise, but if not, maybe it is the diff gear interfering with the inside of the tranny case.

Can anyone else here confirm that they have successfully run the Losi gear diff in the 3-gear tranny case on the 3.0?
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Old 12-26-2015, 07:11 PM   #1190
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I would like to run my motor wires (standard Orion R10 wires) in between the waterfall and the motor. I noticed the wires are really snug when doing this, does that matter? If so, how are guys addressing the issue? I'm running the 3 gear transmission, Orion 7.5, 21t pinion/78t spur.
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Old 12-26-2015, 08:29 PM   #1191
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Okay, the rest of my build went pretty well. The rear suspension was snug, but smooth. The diff feels great, and the shocks are butter smooth. I'm still less than impressed with the quality of this kit, many holes in the plastic are simply too tight and require care when installing fasteners. I have a BIG problem with my dogbones however, my shocks are as short as I can get them, but they are in danger of falling out at max suspension travel. What's everyone doing here? I assume I'll have to put a 1-2mm shim under the piston to limit travel?




Here's a shot of the countersink on the backside of the motor plate. Functionally it's "okay", but in most machine shops--this part would end up in the scrap bin. Quality TLR--what happened with quality on the 3.0???

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Old 12-26-2015, 09:00 PM   #1192
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Could someone be so kind as to clue me into the axle spacer you are referring to? I am not sure what you are all referring to.
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Old 12-26-2015, 09:07 PM   #1193
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Could someone be so kind as to clue me into the axle spacer you are referring to? I am not sure what you are all referring to.

It's the small optinal 1mm spacer that goes on the axle before inserting the axle into the rear hub.
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Old 12-26-2015, 09:08 PM   #1194
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Originally Posted by Casper View Post
I did a little gear diff testing since I have them I liked a 2 gear (take out 2 spider gears) and 20K fluid. Need to do some ball to gear testing but this setup felt pretty good going around the track and lap times were there.
Can someone confirm whether this is a common problem with ball diffs on carpet. I have followed to guide pinned on this board but I still seem to be struggling to make my ball diffs work right. Want to know if I should keep trying or give up on ball diffs on carpet.

Thanks.
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Old 12-26-2015, 09:21 PM   #1195
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Can someone confirm whether this is a common problem with ball diffs on carpet. I have followed to guide pinned on this board but I still seem to be struggling to make my ball diffs work right. Want to know if I should keep trying or give up on ball diffs on carpet.

Thanks.

I would, and I do run a gear diff on carpet. I've been told that the gear diff is what should be run on carpet. I run mine with 3k. It seemed to create a push for me if I run anything thicker.
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Old 12-26-2015, 09:21 PM   #1196
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While I haven't needed to make any changes to my car (running 17.5 on dirt), we used to improve the fitness of the original 22 diff with the older 12-ball XXX diff gear and an AE diff spring. You might try these things if you're having slipping issues.
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Old 12-27-2015, 04:30 AM   #1197
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Default 17.5 setup

Little off topic but my 3.0 is setup with a gen3 17.5t current gearing and timing on can getting a temp of 167 after 15 minutes I know I'm on the high side but feel like it's the motors sweet spot , am I safe running that hot or should I tune it down
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Old 12-27-2015, 04:55 AM   #1198
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Originally Posted by lyork View Post
Okay, the rest of my build went pretty well. The rear suspension was snug, but smooth. The diff feels great, and the shocks are butter smooth. I'm still less than impressed with the quality of this kit, many holes in the plastic are simply too tight and require care when installing fasteners. I have a BIG problem with my dogbones however, my shocks are as short as I can get them, but they are in danger of falling out at max suspension travel. What's everyone doing here? I assume I'll have to put a 1-2mm shim under the piston to limit travel?




Here's a shot of the countersink on the backside of the motor plate. Functionally it's "okay", but in most machine shops--this part would end up in the scrap bin. Quality TLR--what happened with quality on the 3.0???

Dang... That looks like some DIY job. Sorry about your kit but i'm sure TLR will take care of it.
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Old 12-27-2015, 08:31 AM   #1199
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Originally Posted by Mdawson1962 View Post
Little off topic but my 3.0 is setup with a gen3 17.5t current gearing and timing on can getting a temp of 167 after 15 minutes I know I'm on the high side but feel like it's the motors sweet spot , am I safe running that hot or should I tune it down
167 after 15 minutes? More hard core racers are gearing for 167 after six minutes which would lead to a possible burn out after 15. You can probably stand the add more timing or add a tooth or two. I'd be cautious if you are approaching 160 after six minutes since most races are five or six minutes in length.
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Old 12-27-2015, 09:58 AM   #1200
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Originally Posted by Mdawson1962 View Post
Little off topic but my 3.0 is setup with a gen3 17.5t current gearing and timing on can getting a temp of 167 after 15 minutes I know I'm on the high side but feel like it's the motors sweet spot , am I safe running that hot or should I tune it down
what is the gearing and timing and what version of the motor?...my gen 3 rpm does not get that hot, and it is very fast...
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