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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 12-20-2015, 07:34 PM   #1096
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Originally Posted by tony montana View Post
My diff is slightly gritty. Not terrible by any means, but for what ever reason the associated diff seems to last forever.
I have built two 3.0s now. The first one I built for stock, the second mod. The diff in the stock car became slightly gritty as you say. I rebuilt it and it is slightly gritty again. Not a disaster but rather just noticeable.

I built the mod car's diff using Associated's silicone diff grease. Despite living behind an 8.5 it is still very smooth.

I made the change after hearing that AE's grease was of a higher quality for the application. My experience is confirming that claim.

I build the diffs exactly the same way every time and follow a typical break-in procedure before setting the final adjustment.
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Old 12-20-2015, 07:47 PM   #1097
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Originally Posted by motorcitymatt View Post
I have built two 3.0s now. The first one I built for stock, the second mod. The diff in the stock car became slightly gritty as you say. I rebuilt it and it is slightly gritty again. Not a disaster but rather just noticeable.

I built the mod car's diff using Associated's silicone diff grease. Despite living behind an 8.5 it is still very smooth.

I made the change after hearing that AE's grease was of a higher quality for the application. My experience is confirming that claim.

I build the diffs exactly the same way every time and follow a typical break-in procedure before setting the final adjustment.
I thought everyone new that about the Losi/Associated lubes, been using A/E for years
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Old 12-20-2015, 08:20 PM   #1098
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One thing I did notice with every 3.0 yesterday from sportsman to mod was that the car would lift up the rear inside wheel in the turns. We started playing with setup and it got better.
We run slicks at my track and the grip is pretty high. I also noticed the inside rear wheel lifting.

The short answer is that the car is rolling too much. If you consider that many are running the rear shocks with 31mm + of travel (as I am) you know the car is rolling a lot if it can pick the wheel up with that much travel. Some have dealt with that by using firmer springs or going up in oil wt. On smoother tracks this is probably a good call. I am dealing with it by using the "A" position for the ball stud on the rear hubs. I don't want to stiffen up the rear suspension too much on our track because the car will start bouncing around.

Going to the "A" ball stud mount position raises the roll center and also increases camber gain so you may also want to run a little more negative camber. I used -2 knowing I might give up some forward bite. But this car isn't lacking in that department at all.

This adjustment improved the rear inside wheel lifting and subsequent diff-out.
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Old 12-20-2015, 08:21 PM   #1099
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I built with the kit's diff lubes and my diff is as smooth as any ball diff I've ever seen, TLR or otherwise.
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Old 12-20-2015, 08:22 PM   #1100
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I thought everyone new that about the Losi/Associated lubes, been using A/E for years
Heh. I guess I am late to the party.

I actually have known about the preference many have for the AE grease for awhile but I was always a bit skeptical about it and chalked it up to legend/myth. I'm a believer now.
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Old 12-20-2015, 08:48 PM   #1101
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Originally Posted by motorcitymatt View Post
Heh. I guess I am late to the party.

I actually have known about the preference many have for the AE grease for awhile but I was always a bit skeptical about it and chalked it up to legend/myth. I'm a believer now.
It is a myth. Neither company "makes" their own lubes and it's more likely that they get them from the same place.

The diff lube is meant to do lubricate the ball against the plastic diff gear, while allowing friction between the balls and diff rings, ie. It has very little film strength. Smoothness is almost entirely dependent on how smooth the surfaces of the balls and rings are and not bottoming out the diff spring.

Last edited by Davidka; 12-21-2015 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 12-20-2015, 09:55 PM   #1102
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Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
It is a myth. Neither company "makes" their own lives and it's more likely that they get them from the same place.

The diff lube is meant to do lubricate the ball against the plastic diff gear, while allowing friction between the balls and diff rings, ie. It has very little film strength. Smoothness is almost entirely dependent on how smooth the surfaces of the balls and rings are and not bottoming out the diff spring.
+1

So many products are simply re-branded, pop out of the same factory.

Also, I've noticed no people/ groups/ publications seem to do real, critical testing between products anymore. Is everyone so scared of getting sued that no one is willing to compare products like motors, batteries, grease, tires, etc. with actual tests? Everything I read is thinly veiled advertising at worst, or simply unfounded opinion at best. :/
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Old 12-20-2015, 10:41 PM   #1103
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Originally Posted by motorcitymatt View Post
We run slicks at my track and the grip is pretty high. I also noticed the inside rear wheel lifting.

The short answer is that the car is rolling too much. If you consider that many are running the rear shocks with 31mm + of travel (as I am) you know the car is rolling a lot if it can pick the wheel up with that much travel. Some have dealt with that by using firmer springs or going up in oil wt. On smoother tracks this is probably a good call. I am dealing with it by using the "A" position for the ball stud on the rear hubs. I don't want to stiffen up the rear suspension too much on our track because the car will start bouncing around.

Going to the "A" ball stud mount position raises the roll center and also increases camber gain so you may also want to run a little more negative camber. I used -2 knowing I might give up some forward bite. But this car isn't lacking in that department at all.

This adjustment improved the rear inside wheel lifting and subsequent diff-out.
Thanks for the info......
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Old 12-20-2015, 11:29 PM   #1104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorcitymatt View Post
We run slicks at my track and the grip is pretty high. I also noticed the inside rear wheel lifting.

The short answer is that the car is rolling too much. If you consider that many are running the rear shocks with 31mm + of travel (as I am) you know the car is rolling a lot if it can pick the wheel up with that much travel. Some have dealt with that by using firmer springs or going up in oil wt. On smoother tracks this is probably a good call. I am dealing with it by using the "A" position for the ball stud on the rear hubs. I don't want to stiffen up the rear suspension too much on our track because the car will start bouncing around.

Going to the "A" ball stud mount position raises the roll center and also increases camber gain so you may also want to run a little more negative camber. I used -2 knowing I might give up some forward bite. But this car isn't lacking in that department at all.

This adjustment improved the rear inside wheel lifting and subsequent diff-out.
31mm is too much droop imo I run 29 or 29.5.

A shorter link also lowers the roll and stiffens the car up. There are will react faster with the shorter link. Going to a longer link on a high bite track should tame the car down by slowing down the reaction.
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Old 12-21-2015, 06:57 AM   #1105
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Originally Posted by JEFFs SC10 View Post
just curious

so for the guys that used to run AE , this buggy is a lot better box stock?

seems like a lot of people like this buggy.
I went from a B5M with an assortment of upgrades. MIP 3 Gear, MIP Top Shaft, Titanium Turn Buckles, and an assortment of tuning and other little upgrades. To the TLR 22 3.0 out of box parts and I find it to be a night and day difference. The TLR is so much easier to drive and jumps just perfect. Just my opinion of course
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Old 12-21-2015, 08:29 PM   #1106
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calling on frank root!!

Will the aluminum front camber block from the 22 2.0 fit on the 3.0?... How accurate is the hop up section on the tlracing web site. For example a part is in the 3.0 hop up section but beside the part pic, name and description it shows " 22 2.0/ 22SCT, and/or 22T.....but not 3.0. Any help would be great....thanks
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Old 12-21-2015, 10:09 PM   #1107
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Originally Posted by Shaun B22 View Post
calling on frank root!!

Will the aluminum front camber block from the 22 2.0 fit on the 3.0?... How accurate is the hop up section on the tlracing web site. For example a part is in the 3.0 hop up section but beside the part pic, name and description it shows " 22 2.0/ 22SCT, and/or 22T.....but not 3.0. Any help would be great....thanks
Front camber block did not change and the 2.0 alum one is the hop up for the 3.0
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Old 12-21-2015, 10:26 PM   #1108
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Awesome.....thanks Casper!
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:20 PM   #1109
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Did anyone notice the manaul does not mention anything about cutting the wing to go around the shocks?
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Old 12-22-2015, 01:39 AM   #1110
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Can someone explain the wing spacer thingy that has 8 degrees on one side and 0 degrees on the other. If it is to change the angle of the wing, than should it not be on the underside of the wing and not on the top? And if it's not for wing adjustment, than what is its purpose?
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