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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 12-08-2015, 02:37 PM   #841
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It is not unreasonable to assume that some issues are self inflicted.
Not in this case. Josh is among the most experienced racers you will find anywhere. The region he races in is full of good, long time racers. Like he said himself, it's not a big deal, but the production & QC process should be checked.
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Old 12-08-2015, 04:10 PM   #842
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This being my first TLR and probably my last, I thought I'd give my opinion. The shocks are the worst I've built (not sure if I got some bad xrings ) they leak just sitting on the bench. I've bled the front shocks four of five times and can not get the same rebound. The shock shaft pushed through the xrings like there not even there. Others have talked about stripping screw holes , although I didn't strip out any holes some are probably very close. Screwing on the front shock tower those screws barely get snug. This is the first buggy I've owned where the dog bone is so close to the edge of the outdrive that it's scary (can't be that hard making them even .5mm longer) I'm sure it wouldn't hurt handling. The body is a pain in the a$$ to get in on the front through the shock tower. Steering rack is pretty tight too, was also disappointed the rack wasn't aluminum but soft plastic . So far after building the 22 3.0 I am not impressed with it but I'll give it a shot and see how it drives before I make my decision to sell it.

your doing it wrong
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Old 12-08-2015, 05:01 PM   #843
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Not in this case. Josh is among the most experienced racers you will find anywhere. The region he races in is full of good, long time racers. Like he said himself, it's not a big deal, but the production & QC process should be checked.
(After typing this wall of text I realized I quoted you and the majority is not directly addressing you)

Regardless how long he has been racing, building kits, every plastic has it's release point once you go past a certain degree of seated and the threads you just cut give out. It took me about the first two screws to realize this plastic was not going to give me the normal amount of rotation past seated. For this new kit the plastic will not let you get another 1/2 turn once you feel it seat, I went for about a 1/4 turn and left it like that. I even went so far as to only give a couple rotations on each screw as it was producing a ton of heat on the screws. I didn't even attempt to use my screw gun as I knew it would just be pure frustration in the end.

When you come off in the manner he did, combative and know-it-all, all you are going to do is turn folks off that might other wise of listened to you, human nature. There have been a ton of threads on numerous forums where Co. reps ended up walking away do to folks treating them like their whipping post. For a moment, put yourself in the shoes of the guy who helped design this car, gets it to market, and you may not care for folks who dump on the product in what appears to be sour grapes kind of approach, some of your points are salient but some are not. I doubt many had problems building their shocks the first time with out the slightest leak to be seen.

In defense of some of his points I see as salient-
I would much rather see the Kyosho style glass reinforced plastic they use, stuff is tough as nails and takes screws much better over multiple insertions\removals with out giving up their threads. The TLR plastic seems more maliable than anything I have built over the last few years, heck I grabbed a few from the late eighties and the only thing that soft was the white nylon from my original RC 10.
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Old 12-08-2015, 05:14 PM   #844
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your doing it wrong
Well apparently losi kits build different from every other kits on the market. Thanks for your words of wisdom.
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Old 12-08-2015, 06:34 PM   #845
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Ok fresh start... lets all stop being so critical of each other, we are all racing buds. Im guilty as well so i apologize.

On another note, has anyone had time to test back to back the short and long VLA?
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:00 PM   #846
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(After typing this wall of text I realized I quoted you and the majority is not directly addressing you)

Regardless how long he has been racing, building kits, every plastic has it's release point once you go past a certain degree of seated and the threads you just cut give out. It took me about the first two screws to realize this plastic was not going to give me the normal amount of rotation past seated. For this new kit the plastic will not let you get another 1/2 turn once you feel it seat, I went for about a 1/4 turn and left it like that. I even went so far as to only give a couple rotations on each screw as it was producing a ton of heat on the screws. I didn't even attempt to use my screw gun as I knew it would just be pure frustration in the end.

0.
I know this and Josh probably knows it better than both of us. The parts in question are not new, they're from the previous versions, which I own/owned and don't strip easily at all.

Enough has been said about it. I'm sure Ryan is having the vendor review the production part. For now, we'll just have to build carefully.
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:08 PM   #847
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Hopefully first time TLR kit builders are building by hand and not using a electric driver or drill????

Hand build it a bit to ensure you know how much power you need to thread the car together..


About the steering rack.. I find if you make sure the steering posts are secured tight with lock tight from the bottom you wont have to screw down that hard from the top. infact i make sure to just get it snug enough that things are held in place but try not to torque the top down. use the lock tight on the top screws as well.. Also double tripple check your screw lenghts to make sure your not using to long a screw where the top and bottom touch in the middle of the post
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:49 PM   #848
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About the steering rack.. I find if you make sure the steering posts are secured tight with lock tight from the bottom you wont have to screw down that hard from the top. infact i make sure to just get it snug enough that things are held in place but try not to torque the top down. use the lock tight on the top screws as well.. Also double tripple check your screw lenghts to make sure your not using to long a screw where the top and bottom touch in the middle of the post
Your tips are good, but I wanted to add an additional thought...

I suspect that some folks may not be installing the shims/washers (LOSA6356) that go on top of the upper ball bearing in the bellcrank. It is easy to miss that step or to perhaps get them in wrong, causing binding in the steering...?
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:52 PM   #849
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OH - another "tip" on the steering:

Double check that the "tophat bushings" (TLR231027) are installed properly - if installed upside down, it is possible to overtighten the screws and bind the bellcranks...
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:54 PM   #850
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yes the shims also just fly away if your not paying attention they are supper light. i had my 2.0 apart the other day and almost lost one
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Old 12-08-2015, 09:57 PM   #851
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Old 12-08-2015, 10:06 PM   #852
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My LHS doesn't carry Losi and I am going to place an order for spare parts. What parts are most likely to break that I should keep on hand as spares?
Could you guys kindly help out a noob here?
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Old 12-08-2015, 10:21 PM   #853
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Could you guys kindly help out a noob here?
Depends on how far you want to go with having a backup parts list available. I try and keep a set of front and rear arms. No real need for A-D blocks as this kit comes with aluminum and if you're braking those you should just buy a second kit for parts backup. Maybe a front and rear shock tower, rare but you can brake them if you get knocked out of the air on a large jump and pile drive either one into the dirt. At the far end I have seen guys brake all the steering components so a spare part of each of those is not bad and even the steering bell cranks and swing assembly. It just depends on how self sufficient you want to be and how much you are willing to spend.
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Old 12-08-2015, 10:50 PM   #854
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I've been running my front ride height super low to generate enough steering to the point where I've bottomed out the shock collars. I've also dropped my ride height to help mitigate traction rolling.

I plan to put 2mm shock limiters all around to combat traction rolling, but I'd like to hear what others have done to add steering from the stock setup.
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Old 12-09-2015, 07:04 AM   #855
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I know Maifield is just starting to run the car, but Frank you have his setup from Omaha?

Just built my kit, only have to put electronics in it, but it went together great with no issues.
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